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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 04-20-2007, 02:51 PM   #11
Jason Steele
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Kettlebell work may help with conditioning the joints. I think I have seen Jeff Martone talk about it before.
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Old 04-20-2007, 02:58 PM   #12
Ben Nance
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You pretty much HAVE TO do the full mileage at least once. You need a baseline as far as pacing is concerned and you need to condition your connective tissue to have the crap beaten out of it for over 4 consecutive hours. It's a whole different ballgame but best of luck to ya.

I have only done one marathon (Equinox off road marathon back home in Alaska) and I trained for a solid 2 months (constant running) for it and it kicked my butt bad!!
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Old 04-20-2007, 03:21 PM   #13
Brendan Smith
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Al: As folks have mentioned, yes one can complete a marathon without significant mileage training. I've run a marathon each of the past 4 years without running more than 5 miles, 3-4 days per week.

Blend some modest running, crossfit Metcom work, and basic strength and you can gut it out. Just plod along at a slow pace, stay well hydrated, and refuel with some energy sources along the way. You'll be really miserable during the 2nd half, but can be proud of the accomplishment when finished.
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Old 04-20-2007, 05:34 PM   #14
Al Bulkley
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Thanks again for the input, everyone.

I did a couple easy miles today and will call this my first day of training for the marathon on 9/30 (a little earlier than I thought, actually).

How frequently and at what increments should I increase my mileage? Remember, I'm going to be doing one long run every 4 days, plus the day of interval runs. I want to increase very gradually as I have a little over 5 months. Should I just do it evenly, or is there a suggestion for a better formula? I've seen a few of the marathon training programs - they seem pretty standard - and I'm not sure they apply to my situation here.

If I find myself not recovering and needing to do more LSD work than I want to do, I'll make the decision to either do that, or call the whole thing off. I don't want to get hurt too bad (though I'm pretty resilient), and I also don't want to compromise too much the improvements in fitness I've been getting through my CF-style workouts.

I'll try to keep this thread updated with my progress.

Ben, I checked out your myspace page. Are you still in AK? Are you going to be working as a medic in CO? I was posted at Wainwright from 5/94 to 12/97 and I loved every minute of it, still miss AK. I've been an EMT-P for a long while, but currently working as an RN in a SICU. Hoping to get in anesthesia school in a couple years, or possibly back into flying full time.
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Old 04-20-2007, 08:23 PM   #15
Ben Nance
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Al-

I moved from Fairbanks to Durango in February. I flew for guardian up in Alaska but now I'm back on th ground. Good luck on the nurse anesthesist.
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Old 04-20-2007, 09:22 PM   #16
Vincent Tam
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hmm what a coincidence! for the past 2 days I've become really interested in completing a marathon and i had the exact same questions you had. maybe i'll hop along and do this thing with you. I would rather complete the marathon by early August tho, because August 15th is when school will start again for me. So every 3 days will be a long run? Sorry, but what does LSD stand for? And a question for the community, is one long run every three days a good amount? I don't want to lose too much of my strength and become too skinny. Is a long run once a week enough? And do you guys think i'm still going to lose mass if I follow crossfit and sub only one day of the week for a long run? If not, would I lose muscle mass if i sub one day out of each 3 day block?
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Old 04-20-2007, 10:36 PM   #17
Charles Applin
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Well, back in '02 when I ran alot I followed Eric Harr's training advice:

Weight training, 30 min run.
60 min run
60 min run
Weight training, 30 min run
2 hour run

The running was always a LSD pace (70% hr). You ran for time, and let the distance be whatever you got.

As you can see, I wasted alot of time running (good old hindsight). I did about 5 months (never running farther than 3 miles in my life previously) of training which ended with a marathon. I made sure to get two 3 hour runs to get accomodated to the pounding. I pulled off a 4 hour marathon weighing in at 205 pounds.

Now I blindly (ie I've not tried it) recommend the following to get you ready for a marathon:

Four to Five months prior do Crossfit routines, but one day a week do your LSD as your WOD. First month, each run is 60 mins for distance. Second month, make one week a 2 hour run for distance, the other three weeks are 1 hour for distance. Third month, two 1 hour and two 2 hour runs. The last month you can do 1 hour, 2 hour, 1 hour, then 3 hour run. I think that your body should be conditioned to handle upto a 5 hour running endeavor.

Granted, as your metabolism will be spiked thanks to CrossFit, you should have a sub 4 hour time. Just USE A HEART RATE METER to pace yourself. Many may decry a HRM, but I think it's the best tool for endurance events for hack runners like myself.

Also, use a Camel Pack with either Gatoraide or appropriate drink to replinish your sodium balance. Drink about 1 liter per hour. That's for ALL your LSD running.

The big thing I've noticed after doing CrossFit is that running any more than once a week does not seem necessary. You're not getting too much benefit from it, you're just getting your bones used to the constant impact.
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Old 04-21-2007, 09:43 AM   #18
Connie Morreale
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vincent...

lsd means long slow distance.
one long run per week is all thats advised as you need ample recovery time before doing that again. on lsd days, forego any metcon crossfit. upper body strength is okay but once you get up past 10 miles on your long runs you probably wont be all into that either.

the general training plan goes like this;

day 1. run an intermediate distance doing intervals. so if your lsd miles are up to 8, you'd do 4 miles. mile one go easy. mile 2-4 run .25 mile intervals rcovering adequately before beginning the next interval. there is a cap to this, as interval training is hard ion the body. i'd cap this day at 6-7 miles, half of which are done as intervals.

day 2. cross train. bike. crossfit stuff. swim.

day 3. tempo run. after a warmup mile run the whole distance at near "race pace". you should feel uncofortable the whole time. work your way up to 7-10 miles and cap this day there.

day 4. short easy run. 2-4 miles to start. when you are at peak training cap it at 4-5 miles. crossfit stuff, weights.

day 5. rest or cross train easy.

day 6. lsd adding 1 or 2 miles a week.

day 7. recovery/rest. fun stuff.

this is a bare bones mileage program. remember to taper the week before the race. upper body stuff is good any day of the week. remember the 10% rule. do not add more than 10% distance or time to your training runs per week to allow for connective tissue adaptation. some days you'll feel like you could go further but resist the urge.

good luck!
------------------------

dy try n
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Old 04-21-2007, 03:17 PM   #19
Craig Loizides
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I'm writing this while recovering from the Boston marathon last Monday.

First, I think most crossfitters would recommend doing a scaled version of the WOD instead of traditional lifting exercises. You will improve much quicker at doing WODs by doing scaled WODs.

The most important run for the marathon is the long run. I don't like the term "long slow distance" because the term slow is too general. Most people recommend doing the long run at a pace that is about 30-60 seconds slower than your marathon pace. If you don't know your marathon pace, use a running calculator to estimate it from a shorter distance. My favorite is on McMillan Running.

http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/Running%20University/Article%201/mcmillanrunningc alculator.htm

w/f safe

Based on 3 miles at 9 min/mi gives a marathon of about 4:30 or 10:30 per mile. That means do long runs at 11-11:30 per mile. This will feel really slow, but you plan on holding that pace for 4:30 to 5 hours so you need to get used to that pace.

Jeff Galloway has a nice site for running on low mileage. He recommends taking regular walking breaks from the very beginning. At 11 min/mile he recommends running for 2:30 and walking for a minute throughout. You might want to experiment with that.

I think you should only plan on doing 1 long run a week or even 2 every 3 weeks instead of 1 every 4 days. This will be especially important once your runs get longer. For me, the hardest part is getting from runs of 20 minutes to 45 minutes. I'd add about 5 minutes a week up to 45 minutes. After that I can add about 10-15 minutes a week to my long run.

If you want to stick to a 4 day cycle I would do a tempo run on day 1 and alternate between an interval run and long run on day 3.

6 months is enough time, but like others have said you will need to get your joints used to the long time spent on your feet. Build up slowly. I find that some long hikes can help.

Also, I think most people have too much fear of low/moderate intensity running. I set PRs in bench press (8x215) and pullups (10 with 45 pounds) while running 45 miles a week. Just be sure to keep up the intensity in your resistance and interval workouts

Good Luck.
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Old 04-21-2007, 07:08 PM   #20
Corey Duvall
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MANY interesting points in here. A little history on me: I was a basketball player in highschool and a rugby player in college. Neither of which were "endurance" events and I never enjoyed running, though I have always considered myself athletic. The best 1 mi. I had ever ran prior to crossfit was 6:27 my freshman year in college, and I was spent for two days after that. I now attend chiropractic college and have learned quite a bit about the biomechanics of walking and running, and thru that time have changed and modified my running style. I am very conscious of my foot-strike and posture while running, so as to optimize my movements. It has helped ten-fold in relieving pain associated with long runs (just recently finished my first 10-mile run with little "effort") The other thing I learned in chiropractic school was the importance of the musculature that supports the foot. When running on any surface, your muscles of your lower leg insert into the arches in your foot and act as a natural shock absorber and cradle the foot to land as gracefully with each stride as possible. One of my professors has a paper on some simple drills to strengthen those muscles. I do them at least four times a week and have not had ANY foot or shin pain while increasing my milage (I had a small amount in the beginning before the muscles were strong enough, and the pain did not start until I felt lower leg fatigue set in). Here is the link to the paper on the foot drills: http://wellness.ndsu.nodak.edu/fitne...footDrills.pdf (work/family safe link). I recommend doing these religiously while focusing on strengthening those muscles. Your long runs should end as soon as you feel those muscles fatigue, as you will then have a longer recovery period due to the strain you'll place on the joints of your feet, ankles, knees, hips, and low back. Finally, I spoke earlier of my best mile ever. After doing the WOD's for a little over a month and with no running during that time, I ran a 5k in just under 20 minutes, then turned around and jogged home. The metcon, or cardio, you can receive thru the WOD's GREATLY affects ALL aspects of endurance training. When folks talk about your interval runs, this is for the same aspects that the "girls" and similar workouts do, without the impact that pavement running can have on your body. MY recommendation to you, as someone who is an avid crossfitter for a little over two months and is training for their first half ironman this summer, is to stick to the WOD's (scale as needed based on strength and fitness level, push yourself to a point short of injury) and do a long-run once a week, very slowly increasing your distance. Use the long runs to work on proper running gait (if you would like some advice there, I can offer it) and slowly increase the milage. I am currently dating a division 1 distance runner (have turned her into a crossfitter as well and she loves it) and I'll see what she suggests for milage increases. I hope this helps, and keep us all posted.
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