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Old 05-09-2008, 09:34 AM   #1
Brian Gregory
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Low testosterone / 27 yoa male / Causes?

I have been doing crossfit for approx 1 year now. Following zone for approx 4months. I'm 5'10" 170-175# with very low BF%, guessing 10% or less. have gotten noticeably stronger since starting and body composition is pretty good especially since Zone. I have never been a serious athlete, just recreational, and now I'm pretty serious with this Crossfit stuff. Never been a drug user or used testosterone in the past. I've never noticed a problem until recently with energy levels. I had my appendix removed in late Dec '07 and it seems my low energy started after this? Unsure of exact time, but my wife noticed irritability and I really noticed low energy and decreased libido. Saw my Doc, after a friend at work with same symptoms, found out his Testosterone levels were very low ( in the 80-100 range). I got my blood work back and same findings ( in 70-110 range). Both of us had multiple labs drawn, MRI of the brain, thyroid check and all came back normal except for testosterone and slightly low LH.

Doc Rx'd 200mg every 2 weeks IM testosterone after consulting with endocrinologist. I just administered my second shot and have felt better at times but still have days I'm tired with low energy.

I work as a firefighter/paramedic and sometimes sleep is an issue, but not bad lately. Before this issue started I could still perform pretty good on little sleep at least for the day after.

No medical problems in the past. Only take Fish Oil, multivitamin when I remember. I'm eating 17-19 blocks/day with 2x's fat.

Any thoughts?
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Old 05-09-2008, 11:58 AM   #2
Garrett Smith
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Re: Low testosterone / 27 yoa male / Causes?

Chronic systemic subclinical toxicity commonly found in FFers.

Besides breathing in combustion by-products at fires, constantly breathing auto/truck exhaust fumes is probably worse.

Studies on toxins/endocrine disrupters and testosterone:

Testicular dysgenesis syndrome and Leydig cell function.
Endocrine-disrupting potential of bisphenol A, bisphenol A dimethacrylate, 4-n-nonylphenol, and 4-n-octylphenol in vitro: new data and a brief review.
Human metabolic interactions of environmental chemicals.

(all links work and family safe)

Remember that the lungs are designed to absorb nearly everything that we breathe in, good or bad.

Also, if you have not done any probiotics (if you want some really good ones, PM me) since the appendectomy, you need to re-establish your gut flora in a serious way (that's supposed to be the job of the appendix, to hold flora in case it was all wiped out).

ZMA before bed (or anytime) may help a little, but it will not address the toxicity.

Some may try to argue this. Fine. I don't have time for it and I see too many people improve in my practice when I address this issue for me to spend time arguing here. I'm on this thread by the poster's request through PM. I hope this has been of some help to you.
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Last edited by David Wood : 05-09-2008 at 07:25 PM. Reason: added "safe" designation
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Old 05-09-2008, 12:35 PM   #3
Steven Low
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Re: Low testosterone / 27 yoa male / Causes?

Agreed with Garrett (per request as well).

Only really other problem that may occur is it could be genetic. But since your friend at work is having some problems too it's probably something to do with the work environment.. so Garrett's explanation makes the most sense.
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Old 05-09-2008, 01:08 PM   #4
Brian Gregory
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Re: Low testosterone / 27 yoa male / Causes?

Garrett and Steven thank you both for your quick replies. Is there a test or lab that may show this "Chronic systemic subclinical toxicity"? Is there a way to return the body back to normal if I somehow reduced the time I spend in these environments? This really makes a lot of sense with my job. When my co-worker and I found out our levels we and the doctor's were all perplexed.

I will definitely look into the ZMA, but would I need to stop the Testosterone injections, in your opinion?

I PM'd you about the other Garrett.

While taking the injections does your body ever start to regulate the highs and lows I've experienced so far?

Thanks for the links Garrett I'll read them ASAP.
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Old 05-09-2008, 02:56 PM   #5
Garrett Smith
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Re: Low testosterone / 27 yoa male / Causes?

Sorry, forgot to put WFS on the above PubMed links. My bad

The two major tests I run include WFS:
Environmental Pollutants Panel
Urine Toxic Metals, 6 hours, with DMSA challenge

Can the body ever be returned to normal? IMO, yes, absolutely. The human body has been ridding itself of toxic compounds for millions of years. The key is to increase the excretion rate while decreasing the amount that is coming in.

Does one have to stop the test injections to take ZMA? IMO, no. Zinc and magnesium are *essential* nutrients to the body--particularly in male endocrine function. The only time ZMA increases testosterone is if one is deficient in zinc or magnesium. If you were to start "detoxing", as it were, while taking ZMA, what would likely happen in the future would be you would start noticing symptoms of excessive testosterone. Then the injections would have to be reduced or discontinued (that's a good thing, it means your boys are back online).

While you are taking the injections, your body is constantly trying to regulate around them. You'll want to watch for your highs and lows in relationship to various environmental exposures (ie. painkillers, fires, being around a lot of exhaust, alcohol, coffee/caffeine). Those can give some insight into the various detoxification pathways of the liver.

Those same pathways may be something to test in the future.
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Last edited by Garrett Smith : 05-09-2008 at 03:16 PM.
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Old 05-09-2008, 06:01 PM   #6
Brian Gregory
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Re: Low testosterone / 27 yoa male / Causes?

So in your opinion the way to start "detoxing" would be to start the probiotics and try to avoid the environmental exposures as much as possible?

Do you think it is important to have zinc and Mg levels checked prior to starting ZMA?

Thanks you've been a great help.
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Old 05-12-2008, 08:32 AM   #7
John Fitzgerald
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Re: Low testosterone / 27 yoa male / Causes?

Do you know if your doctor performed tests to determine if your issue was primary or secondary. Primary basically means that your testicles are the issue. Secondary means that other factors such are the cause. The treatment of choice by most doctors is to just dose testosterone regardless of the cause. If the cause is secondary this can lead to other issues. I suggest you read The Testosterone Syndrome by Dr. Eugene Shippen. Also, there are one or two good forums on the internet that address these issues.
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Old 05-15-2008, 04:25 PM   #8
Robert Hornback
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Re: Low testosterone / 27 yoa male / Causes?

I too was diagnosed with low testosterone (99 when first diagnosed). My problem is in my pituitary gland. ( I also have hypothyroidism). They still can't figure out the cause of the pituitary problem. i have had MRI's, CT scans, pretty much every test done. dealt with the low energy thing for about 6 months and just put at off as being tired. But my huge drop in performance on WOD's told me something was wrong. and I lost almost 30 lbs.

For the testosterone, my endocrinologist put me on Androgel, which I apply daily after showering in the morning. It recommends not showering for at least 6 hours after applying, so that it can soak in. My endocrinologist told me that I would get the highs and lows in testosterone if I did the shots, which is why she recommended putting me on the cream. I was originally on 5 mg per day, but was upped to 7.5 after my test about 5 months ago said my levels were in the high 200's. My endocrinologist wanted them to be higher so she upped the dosage.

I
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Old 05-15-2008, 04:31 PM   #9
Robert Hornback
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Re: Low testosterone / 27 yoa male / Causes?

John, your right about the docs just dosing the testosterone regardless of the cause. My endoc prescribed me to that on my first visit because she wanted me to feel better. i know exactly what Brian is going through regarding irritability and lack of libido. My irritability got to the point where I was pretty much a recluse and didn't even want to be around my parents because they "bothered" me. But if the low test is due to a secondary cause, don't let anything go unchecked.
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Old 05-15-2008, 06:45 PM   #10
Garrett Smith
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Re: Low testosterone / 27 yoa male / Causes?

Brian, check out this new thread I started on exhaust fumes and testosterone (to get more folks to look at it, as it is a wider issue than simply yours).
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Last edited by Garrett Smith : 05-15-2008 at 06:49 PM. Reason: repaired link
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