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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 04-18-2005, 10:20 AM   #21
Matt Gagliardi
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What's a safe HR? Zero. Anything else carries some risk.
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Old 04-18-2005, 11:15 AM   #22
Dan Silver
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Matt is the Clint Eastwood of fitness.

That rules.

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Old 04-18-2005, 06:28 PM   #23
Brendan Melville
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We have a joke on the crew team. If you feel pain, nausea, or feel like you're going to black out, you're probably doing the right thing. There's plenty of time and floorspace to pass out afterwards!
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Old 04-18-2005, 06:33 PM   #24
Matt Gagliardi
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Exactly right Brendan.
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Old 04-18-2005, 06:58 PM   #25
Don Stevenson
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Ouch! I left my self open to that one from Frank.

I've often wondered what the HR profile of sex looks like. Perhaps that could be the next crossfit challenge.

Obtain a HR profile of sex without getting laughed out of your own house.
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Old 04-19-2005, 02:59 AM   #26
Alexander Karatis
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Don, that's a good idea. I wonder why you instantly felt you'll be laughed at though...:rofl:

This profile of yours could lead to some genuine competition between suitors as well as added flirting oppurtunities...

"Vould u like to see mein graph?"
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Old 04-20-2005, 02:06 PM   #27
Kalen Meine
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I was just reading an article, though I don't recall where, about how the various age-absolute max relationship HR formulas are pretty much bunk. They were calculated mostly for the benefit of the ill in need of medical cardio work, and were focused around long slow distance-type work. Interval protocols like CF and Tabata workouts demand vastly exceeding those recommended maxs. It seems to be that, given the variations in aerobic/anaerobic capacity, heart size, blood volume, etc, if you can do it and your body isn't thorwing up any major red flag, go for it.
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Old 04-21-2005, 10:10 AM   #28
John Frazer
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I can believe (easily) that max HR numbers were developed in a rehab environment.

In my recreational triathlon days (several years ago) I diligently wore a HR monitor -- even with a resting HR in the low/mid-50s, any running beyond a shuffle-step would put me over my alleged "target" heart rate.

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Old 04-21-2005, 01:14 PM   #29
Eugene R. Allen
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Let's not throw out the entire notion of HR based training based on an acknowledged as not-reliably-accurate max HR estimation method. It's a guess everyone, a way to ballpark your HR zones without a max test. The 220 minus your age thing for men and 226 minus your age for women gives you a max that is likely to be low for 1/3 of the population, too high for another third and just about right for the rest.

Another method is the 180 formula that Phil Maffetone suggests (Mark Allen's coach). Subtract your age from 180 and then adjust that number based on your level of fitness and health taking off 2 or adding as much as 5.

With the first formula 220 - 49 = 171, we get a max HR that is 19 beats too low. My aerobic max would be 70% of that which is only 120 and I get there just looking at Nicole's abs. With the 180 formula 180 - 49 = 131 + 5 = 136 we get a slightly more reasonable aerobic max which is 3 beats higher than 70% of my 190 max HR which is only 133. I use 141 as my max aerobic HR. Not sure where I got that but after years and years of trial and error that number works for me.

So what have we learned from this other than I like what the Zone has done for Nicole? We have learned that HR estimates are an unreliable method of determining HR zones and you should go out and test it yourself.

Now, are you an endurance athlete? No. Disregard this whole notion. Anaerobic athletes have little use for HR zone monitoring. Since I race in events where a sprint event takes me over an hour and I typically race for 6 hours or more for a half Ironman race, monitoring and adjusting my effort based on my HR is very useful and training in the various HR zones is imperative. I do work at lower heartrates for my aerobic base and high heartrates for lactate threshold or VO2 max, and by knowing where my zones are I can accurately create and then follow a workouts that properly address my training needs. I do some really CF-like bike workouts called Spinervals from Coach Troy Jacobsen that are truly brutal, and that do crazy things to my HR...I know how crazy because I wear a HR monitor and constantly keep tabs on my ticker. When I do aerobic work or a recovery run I can keep my HR in the aerobic zone to allow for proper recovery or aerobic pathway development. I also check my HR in the morning in order to predict when I might need a rest day. If I am 6 or 8 beats above my normal resting HR, I don't hammer that day.

For most CrossFitters, I would imagine that the whole HR thing is a waste of time. If you are going balls out the whole time (pardon me for not having a female equivilent for the sake of equal time) what sense is there to monitor your HR? Except perhaps for curiosity, the number would have little real meaning to your training.

Remember too that your max is completely different depending on the activity. My lactate threshold when running is 168, my biking LT is 156 and I think in the pool it is around 150. It's lowest when swimming because of the cooling effect of the water and the horizontal position of your body that makes it easier on your heart to move the blood.

Anyway, I think this discussion may have lost sight of the acknowledgement that the estimates are known to be only occasionally predictive of the actual max HR values. If you want to predict yours, remember that it is different depending on the type of activity you are doing so you have to measure it in that environment.
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Old 04-21-2005, 08:50 PM   #30
Rene Renteria
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I've often wondered what the HR profile of sex looks like.

Well, this isn't HR but blood pressure. Nonetheless, related:

It's from a paper on allostasis we discussed a while back. Here's the full PDF and the page with more references:

I'll have to look for the heart rate info (in the interest of science). It sounds like they may be taking volunteers, if you're interested:

Clin Cardiol. 2001 Apr;24(4):271-5. Related Articles, Links

The cardiovascular response to sexual activity: do we know enough?

Falk RH.

Boston Medical Center, Boston University School of Medicine, Massachusetts 02118, USA.

Interest in comprehensive cardiac rehabilitation over the past 25 years spawned a series of small investigations concerning the heart rate, blood pressure, and ischemic response to sexual intercourse. This information was adequate for advising patients about return to sexual activity after a myocardial infarction or cardiac surgery. However, the introduction of medications for erectile dysfunction enabled impotent cardiac patients to engage in sexual activity and has highlighted the need for more detailed information concerning cardiovascular physiology during coitus. Review of the medical literature indicates a remarkable paucity of such data despite dramatic advances in most other aspects of cardiovascular physiology and pathophysiology. This brief paper gives an overview of the current knowledge of the cardiovascular response to sexual activity and, within the framework of advances in cardiology, highlights areas where it appears important to fill in the knowledge gap.

And you always knew there was something else bad about certain things:

Ital Heart J. 2004 May;5(5):343-9. Related Articles, Links

Sexual activity with and without the use of sildenafil: risk of cardiovascular events in patients with heart disease.

Alboni P, Bettiol K, Fuca G, Pacchioni F, Scarfo S.

Division of Cardiology and Arrhythmologic Center, Civic Hospital, Cento (FE), Italy.

The data in the literature on the relationship between sexual activity, with and without the use of sildenafil, and the occurrence of cardiovascular events (ventricular arrhythmias, nonfatal myocardial infarction, stroke and death) have been reviewed in patients with heart disease. To date, only patients with ischemic heart disease (IHD) have been investigated. The prevalence of premature ventricular beats during sexual intercourse is similar to that observed during other daily activities. Therefore, sexual activity does not seem to have a relevant arrhythmogenic effect. The incidence of sustained ventricular tachycardia during sexual intercourse in unknown. The relative risk of nonfatal myocardial infarction is 2.7 in males and 1.3 in females; however, the absolute risk appears extremely low and is similar in normal subjects and in patients with and without IHD. The risk appears to be restricted to the 2-hour time period after sexual intercourse. The incidence of stroke during sexual intercourse appears very low, but clear data are lacking. The incidence of death during sexual activity is unknown; the few available data suggest that it is very low. Extramarital sexual intercourse seems to increase the risk of death. The incidence of cardiovascular events after sildenafil administration has been investigated in placebo-controlled studies in patients with IHD. The incidence of nonfatal myocardial infarction, stroke and death did not significantly differ between sildenafil-treated and placebo-treated patients; therefore, sildenafil does not appear contraindicated in subjects with IHD. However, the drug should be administered with caution in patients with recent myocardial infarction or stroke, in those with active coronary ischemia and in patients with episodes of heart failure. The drug is absolutely contraindicated in patients using nitrates.

It's a crazy world.
Have fun,
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