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Old 12-30-2007, 03:31 AM   #91
Derek Weaver
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Re: Why MMA/KM?

I have trained in BJJ, Thai Boxing, Krav Maga and think that Krav Maga is the most effective for real life.

As you rise in your training you will learn real life effective techniques for dealing with multiple attackers, weapon attacks (think of a mugger with a knife or a gun, a car jacking etc.), how to break chokes and end a conflict quickly.

It's real life street fighting and self defense.

As for MMA, it's what's "in". With the UFC, IFL, K-1 Heroes, and a host of other top notch orgs going there is a lot of exposure and interest.
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Old 12-30-2007, 08:48 AM   #92
Larry Lindenman
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Re: Why MMA/KM?

Couple of thoughts from a guy who has been training in martial arts for almost 30 years. I have also used this stuff on the street as a police officer, SWAT guy, and undercover.

1. He/She who hits first and decisively, wins the fight (period).
A. This means you need to be aware.
B. This means you need to be able to tell when a person will strike you, ie: pre fight indicators.
C. You also need to have the confidence to strike first and get outta there.

2. If you haven't tested your art full contact, force on force...you will fail in a fight. I'm talking realistic force on force, with the adrenaline pumping and the other guy/gal trying to take you out.

3. You need as few options as possible, that you know work well. Having 1000 ways to block a jab cross slows reaction time.

A. The most common empty hand attack is the right cross/hook. You need to have a default response to that.

4. Your default response needs to keep you off the ground. Your BJJ doesn't work well against the ground and pound/stomp/steel toe boot kick.

5. No one is going to mug you without an advantage. Perceived strength deficit (you being on the bad end), weapons, and partners are a given. Attacks happen up close because, the bad guy (BG) needs to get close to hit, stab, or intimidate you with a weapon, without drawing attention from multiple witnesses (no one stands back 10 feet and yells "give me your money!). The BG will use a ruse to get close. No mugger runs up to you and hits (very rarely). They ask for a dollar, ask for help, tell you you dropped money/keys. They use deception to bridge the gap. You need recognize this and be forceful and back them down, and be conditioned to get your hands up to preserve distance. You also need to be aware of your surroundings, due to multiple attackers. The other type of fight is a mutual combat type of thing. A bar fight being the example. If you engage in this, your an idiot and deserve what you get. Verbally defuse, apologize, or run is the best defense against this.

A. The mugger wants to get paid, not caught or hurt. So they are going to stack the deck in their favor. Your best defense is not looking like a target and avoiding areas where jackals hunt for targets. If you are in that area (say a atm or a underground parking lot), you need to be hyper aware (don't talk on phones or daydream), and already have a weapon in hand. The hardest and most ignored art is weapons access. That knife, pepper spray, asp, does you no good in your purse/brief case. Even on your belt, it is difficult to access mid-fight. Get the hard part out of the way and have a hand on your weapon!

6. Stay away from stupid people, stupid places.

7. Learn how to verbally diffuse potentially violent situations.

8. MMA is the best platform for self defense. It's the best platform because it weeds out BS quickly. If it doesn't work, you pay for it. Add in eye jabs, chin jabs and you have a pretty good base. It also teaches you how to take a hit/kick and fight through it. If you haven't been rocked in "sparing", your not training for reality. MMA has boiled down to: BJJ (JJ or Judo), Boxing, wrestling (all forms), and MT.

9. "My martial art is too dangerous for the ring" is pure BS, put up or shut up. That 30 pounds of pressure will break the knee stuff is crap. Your one punch one kill thing is laughable. Lidell, GSP, Silva, Hughes, Penn, etc. will eat your instructor alive, eat them alive without blinking. Why, because they have more experience destroying people, it's what they do.

10. "Buy a gun" is not an answer. Really, just buy a gun. How about training with it, training with sims, could you carry all the time? If you carry all the time, could you access the weapon mid fight? How? Do some force on force training with loaded sim guns, holstered, from conversational distance. Your not getting a shot off, without having to engage hand to hand, open space, and then draw. If the BG grabs your guns slide, guess what...your gun goes out of battery. Carry a knife then. Do you think a knife will stop an attacker? Your wrong, most people who are stabbed (even fatal stabs) do not know it, some times it takes minutes for the person to slow down from a stab. Notice I said stab, a slash very rarely kills, very rarely. Heck, gun shot wounds rarely kill. You need to fight through GSWs and knife wounds...they are not death rays.

Bottom line, it isn't about who could talk a good game, it's not about looking good, it's about using what works. The only way to know what works is by testing it as full force as you can, in realistic environments. Going into a guard, in an alley, with multiple opponents wearing heavy boots, is different than the mat in your dojo and bare feet. Realistic, intense, contact training, in various environments, is the best way to train self protection. Being conditioned helps a lot (I have a big beef with out of shape overweight martial arts instructors).

Sorry about the rant, but theoretical discussions about self protection are potentially dangerous and mostly BS. Just like Crossfit, if you think it works, test it under real conditions...you'll find out pretty fast is your instructors theories hold water.

By the way, there are many reasons to practice martial arts. I believe combative effectiveness is just one of the reasons. By all means, I believe in the other many benefits of MA and I do not deride any art. Just don't make assumptions.
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Old 12-30-2007, 09:29 PM   #93
Randall Scott
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Re: Why MMA/KM?

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Originally Posted by Max Zerba View Post
3 points.
1) The best self defense of your 800 meter time. Run like Hell!

2) The next best self defense....be home by mid-night....nothing good happens after mid night.

3) Going to the ground is horrible. You have no mobility, you are a sitting target. Get up and reference 1). Your attacked probably has friends that will kick you in the head.

^^^^ 1 point to make

1. never trust a guy who says "nothing good happens after mid night."!
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Old 01-11-2008, 08:50 AM   #94
Bob Sorensen
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Re: Why MMA/KM?

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Originally Posted by David Bott View Post
I live in Australia and purchasing a handgun or mace is simply not an option. Same with butterfly/flick knives, extendible batons, nunchaku, tonfa, heck even those Kubotan keyring thingies are illegal here!
Is surviving an attack also illegal there too? I hear it is in the UK. Maybe it's time to work on your legislators. IMHO

Bob
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Old 01-11-2008, 11:53 AM   #95
Rolando Ezequiel Martinez
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Re: Why MMA/KM?

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Originally Posted by Carlo Mattia View Post
ladies and gentlemen one simple question why do we train/study martial arts ? to learn how to fight ? or so we do not have to fight (avoid the situation)
Even though I think there are more applicable and efficient self defense classes, such as Krav Maga, I've only taken Muay Thai.

It is a sport.

Even though it is a combat oriented sport, it still has been beneficial to me in regards to realistic self defense. I'm not scared of getting punched. My training has taught me not to flinch when I get hit, but to attack back.

Overall, it has increased my aggressiveness in a combat situation and given me increased physical confidence. And even though Becca was right by saying a thai kick isn't the best move in the world to throw out there when being attacked, the conditioning you receive from some of these classes do help in a combat situation.

My recommendation to someone who only wants to learn how to defend themselves would be Krav Maga.
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Old 01-17-2008, 10:04 AM   #96
Mac Ferguson
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Re: Why MMA/KM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Lindenman View Post
Couple of thoughts from a guy who has been training in martial arts for almost 30 years. I have also used this stuff on the street as a police officer, SWAT guy, and undercover.

1. He/She who hits first and decisively, wins the fight (period).
A. This means you need to be aware.
B. This means you need to be able to tell when a person will strike you, ie: pre fight indicators.
C. You also need to have the confidence to strike first and get outta there

....

By the way, there are many reasons to practice martial arts. I believe combative effectiveness is just one of the reasons. By all means, I believe in the other many benefits of MA and I do not deride any art. Just don't make assumptions.
I agree, with a couple of caveats - I think pretty much any martial art can be effective as self defense as long as the practice of technique is accompanied with lots of free-fight sparring. If you are training and sparring sessions are not a significant proportion of your training, or your sparring has a lot of rules (ie "no headshots" "outside leg kicks only" "no ground fighting" etc) you are not learning much. The background of your teacher is important too, have they done event/club security, personal protection, law enforcement or something that would have put them in a lot of confrontation situations, or are they "dojo PhD"s?

MMA as it has evolved is great because it focuses on all ranges of unarmed combat from kicking range to punching range, to the clinch and the ground, and it has been refined to the most effective .

The downside of a lot of sport-focused MMA training is a lot of schools won't train you to fight multiple opponents, how to fight with and defend against weapons or how to fight in non-ring, non-mat environments. It's also a lot safer to go to the ground in a sport fight than it is in a street fight.

Krav Maga is also extremely effective, it's purpose is undiluted by sport or ystique and deals with most of things I mentioned above as lacking from MMA, it's principles are simple and quickly understood
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Old 01-17-2008, 12:55 PM   #97
Ian Kovtunovich
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Re: Why MMA/KM?

I have about a year and half of experience training in Mo Duk Pai kung fu, although the rearranging of my life by way of fatherhood has precluded my training for the past year. (www.modukpai.com www.academyofkungfu.org -- safe links). It is a relatively modern style, blending traditional KF techniques and forms with ground work, weapons and multiple attacker defense, tournament sparring, and a lot of what I would call "fight theory." There is also a CrossFit program at the school, so they use a lot of CF-style workouts for training, and there is a strong emphasis on physical conditioning and mental toughness. From what I have seen in the more advanced students, it is an effective style, although I kind of think even knowing how to throw a good punch from the hips, with good alignment so you don't sprain your wrist, is something of an advantage--maybe having good blocking is even better!

I can see the value in a versatile approach, for sure. There is no telling what kind of jive situation one might encounter, and having a lot of tools in the self-defense toolbox seems like the best recipe for making it home. After all, if you know how to block and strike, and you succeed, you may avoid going to the ground. If you get knocked to the ground, your stand-up game instantly becomes useless, so it's good to have some idea of what to do--even just bridging to get an attacker off of you.

Something that is not talked about a lot aside from the self-defense aspect are the discipline, self-respect, and self-confidence that someone gains from martial arts. Unless I get mugged, I will probably never get in a fight, but I feel better about myself, more confident in day-to-day situations, and more capable of taking on challenging situations because of my training. I would say that the real benefit is in applying these positive aspects of training to every day life.
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Old 01-18-2008, 01:50 AM   #98
Michael Bruce Mailman
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Re: Why MMA/KM?

Larrys post has been the best in this thread.

I've worked as a cop or "LEO" as they are called in the states for just over 5 years, most of it on the front line.

I've been involved in hapkido, a "traditional" martial art, for 4 years, and have just begun MMA training for about a month,

I've been in more wrestling matches then I can remember with offenders and several very violent fist fights with varying numbers of opponents involved.

Hapkido involves hundreds of joint locks, and the only ones I use effectively with any regularity are arm bars and gooseneck wrist locks.

Leaving everything about situational awareness aside, in terms of pure fighting effectiveness, I believe the following qualities make the best fighters:

1. Aggression
2. Size
3. Athletic ability

Training comes in last. It doesn't matter what you train in, the more of the above you have the better you will be,

Training will develop the above 3 qualities. It does make a difference which style you train in, as so many have already alluded to in this thread, MMA styles develop the above qualities and prepare one for the feeling of being hit, and more importantly the will to keep on fighting when you are absolutely gassed.

I actually trained in Karate for about 2 years back when I was 20. I became pretty good at long range fighting (kicks, reverse punch, etc) but had no idea what to do against hooks, elbows, and knees etc.
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Old 08-20-2010, 03:53 PM   #99
Randall Scott
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Re: Why MMA/KM?

Ok I haven't posted here in a while, and I know this is old....BUT....since this thread I actually had the first (and hopefully last) street fight of my adult life (about a year and a half ago). I have to say that my MMA/BJJ training failed me miserably!!! AND...If you believe that I also have some land to sell you in the Everglades!

Here is the short story.....

A guy came after me, in a parking lot. As soon as he "chest bumped" me I clinched him and kneed him one time in the chest (was going for his face and missed!). He was able to spin away from me but I quickly clinched back up with double under hooks. I tripped him backwards and he spun away from me while falling to the ground, which left my left leg already around his (1 hook in). When we hit the ground I threw the other hook around and choked him out with a rear naked choke. Everything lasted about 30 seconds. After, we called the cops and they made him leave the property. My damage consisted of a tiny scrape on my knee and another on my elbow. I was able to handle the situation very quickly and effectively without hurting the guy very bad. I stayed totally calm the whole time and it was like slow motion to me. Everything happened on instinct, and I have no doubts that if things would have went any other way I would have been prepared as well.

Like I said, I know it's an old thread, but thought this would be an interesting update if any of you are still around
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