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Old 06-29-2007, 03:04 PM   #21
Franklin Shogie
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I'm in the 40+ demographic. Like you, Dave, I look for value.

I belong to a big box gym and because of the corporate discount I pay $4.50/mo.

There are no C2 rowers nor are there kettlebells, but there is a power rack that other than from me sees little use, a complete set of dumbbells upto 120lb, plenty of plates for squats and deadlifts, room for doing handstand pushups, no hassle on running in and out of the gym for WODs like Michael and Nancy.

I don't need group workouts but I will be attending a CrossFit weightlifting seminar to improve my techniques.
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Old 06-29-2007, 07:14 PM   #22
David Sailor
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I have one gym in town that is not set up to accomodate the typical WOD. I built my own home gym instead. There's an affiliate about 20 minutes away but with limited hours. I still enjoy going there, paying a $10 or $20 drop in depending on the instruction and get my money's worth in technique, motivation and comraderie. We all place a value on fitness and the monthly fee falls somewhere along that line, sometimes above, sometimes below. David.
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Old 06-29-2007, 07:57 PM   #23
Travis Hall
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If I was to dedicate myself to the Crossfit protocol 100% then I would definitely join an affiliate. The price really isn’t that bad. After all, doing Crossfit 100% isn’t simply working out, right? “The sport of fitness”- it’s competitive. Look at the prices for any Martial Arts classes and think: what's better? Going to a class with like minded individuals and quality instructors or watching an old vhs tape entitled "Vol 1- The Kick"

- T.
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Old 06-29-2007, 10:11 PM   #24
Carrie Klumpar
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You can't know whether it's worth it until you try it. Get some empirical evidence. Do it for a couple months and see whether it's worth it. Depending on you, the trainers at the new affiliate, the other clients, etc., it might or might not be. It's worth $150-$300 to know, I'd think. (And you'll certainly learn something from the experience, one way or another.) In another lifetime, before I started CF, I would've thought those prices too high for me to pay and wouldn't have understood the value at all. Now, I see it completely differently. I've posted comments elsewhere on this topic, which I'll repeat here:

--

I’ve been thinking (again) about the rate structures of CF affiliates, and the “How can you justifying charging so much?” question that comes up periodically on the message board. So…

Yes, $155 a month (for unlimited small-group classes) is a good chunk of change and is out of reach for many people (though some of them would recoup the cost in the form of reduced prescription drug and other medical expenses).

Compared to membership at most big-box gyms (which are merely for access, not for any expertise or personal input), yeah, we’re pretty expensive. Compared to personal training rates, though, we are definitely undercharging. Some thoughts, and some math.

•Folks coming to classes five days a week are paying somewhere around $7/class (our monthly fee for unlimited group classes is $155). Seven dollars per class. (For 3 times a week it's under $12/hr.)That’s for always-varied, hands-on, very attentive training in some seriously functional, effective, fun stuff in a space equipped with legitimate tools, and (usually) two fully engaged coaches. Not to mention a community of other people that no amount of money can buy.

•You can’t go jump around on a plastic step in a leotard with thirty other people and an instructor who can’t even see you and doesn’t know your name for that amount. (Dang, you can't even go sit in a movie theater and veg for two hours for that amount.)

•The rate for “personal trainers” at the nearby FancyClub who stand next to treadmills with clipboards and move selector pins are $70-90/hour. So one month of group classes with us (anywhere from, say, 13 to 23 sessions, depending on the individual) equates to roughly two sessions of that crap.

•“Working” with personal trainers 3 times per week at said FancyClub would cost at least $650/month. And they can pretty much guarantee lesser results.

•I don’t even know what rates are at the Gold’s Gyms of the area ($30/month, plus enrollment fee??), but it doesn’t matter because that’s not a comparable “product” either.

What we’re all offering with our small group classes is unique. It’s not comparable—in any terms, really—to anything else out there in the fitness world. It’s not exactly personal training (we do that too—and much better then the competitors, imnsho) and it’s not a gym membership, and it’s not even your usual group fitness class. This is closely coached, skill-focused, high-intensity, performance-measured, personalized, functional-movement-based training in a community context. There’s nothing else like it on the planet. $155 is a downright steal.

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Old 06-30-2007, 11:44 AM   #25
Daniel Freedman
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I agree with the last comment.

I am a Crossfit newbie who watched a class, tried a class, and got hooked. That's me, in the bottom right
at:
http://www.crossfitto.com/gallery/
workouts/2007-workouts/june-2007/workout-2007-06-25/dsc08895.jpg/view

The instructor made me stop after three rounds. But I loved the camaraderie and competition.

Remember: the term "class" is a misnomer. Each class combines instruction, practice, and competition. At my affiliate, the biggest class I've seen is 7 people.
So it's actually quite close to personal training.

I purchased an "introductory" package of five 45-60 min. private training sessions for just $150. I could have jumped right into the regular classes, but preferred to sign up for a month long boot camp class next. The boot camp will be a small class that meets in daily hour long sessions for four weeks. The cost is $250.

Considering the amount of personal attention, I consider this $400 for 25 hours of instruction to be money well spent. It works out to $16 an hour. That's about what you'd pay at the drop-in rate to be "lost in the crowd" in a group fitness class at a big box gym or for yoga classes.

Remember: not every newbie knows what to do with a kettle ball, or even how to do a dead lift. And we want to compete with the big boys ASAP.

I consider myself lucky to live within 10 minutes of an affiliate. The classes will allow me to ramp my fitness level very quickly.

And I think I'm getting good value.

(Message edited by Danfreedmn on June 30, 2007)

(Message edited by Danfreedmn on June 30, 2007)
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Old 06-30-2007, 05:51 PM   #26
Rich Fonseca
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It would be great if you could pay for 30 days, and then go when you feel it necessary. For example go to three classes in a row, then work on your own for a week then come back for 3-4 days, and come back whenever you feel like you need a refresher, or a boost to get you going hard again, but at $7 a day it's not bad.
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Old 06-30-2007, 06:23 PM   #27
Tim Weaver
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Rich

Well, anything in business is possible if one is willing to pay for it.

It sounds like what you're perhaps looking for is the "punch card" model. Not impossible, but you gotta remember that businesses survive on one very vital thing:

Cash flow.

If you pre-pay for 30 days, but the owner has no idea of when you will use that punch card, then it becomes very difficult to figure out how they will meet their financial obligations.

Were I ever to own a gym, I might offer something like that but a) I'd charge more for it and b) I'd put a time-limit on how long that punch-card was valid (like 6 months).

From a purely business/economic standpoint, the extra money upfront off-sets the uncertainty of future cash-flow, and the time-limit permits the owner to understand within what time-frame that money can be "allocated" toward costs.

In your 3-4 days on & 7 days off model, utilization would be about 1 week per month (6-8 days use, average thus is 7 days). That means that one should (theoretically) use their 30-days within 4 months.

Thus, I think a 6-month cap on a "punch card" membership would be logical. What I would need to consider would be how much more to charge, if any, for it.
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Old 06-30-2007, 06:52 PM   #28
Rich Fonseca
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Tim, i totally understand, it makes much more sense from a business standpoint. I guess in reality, i don't know if i could handle Cross-fit 6 days a week, at least not to begin with, after a month or two i think the body could adapt without being completely taxed everyday. Maybe I'll see if my local cross-fit would do a punch card type deal with me giving notice a few day ahead of time, and a 2-3 month cap, i guess the worst they can say is no. Don't get me wrong i think it is completely worth it, just don't have that kind of money right now.
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Old 07-01-2007, 06:19 AM   #29
Daniel Freedman
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Among other things, Crossfit Toronto offers:

10 class pack $170 ($17/class)
20 class pack $320 ($16/class)
50 class pack $750 ($15/class)

I think this is a good model. A newbie could start with a 10 class pack, and see what his usage pattern is. He could then decide whether to switch to an "all you can eat" model.
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Old 07-01-2007, 07:28 AM   #30
Dave Campbell
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Guys,
If I had the disposable income (I probably do, but my wife would frown at me paying $150 per month to stay fit), I would be willing to pay it for the first few months to get me up to speed with the exercises. After that, I would put together a garage gym (which is exactly what I did) and do it myself at a much cheaper rate. I understand the "closely coached" necessity in the beginning, but once you get the hang of the C&J and the Snatch, the rest is pretty easy. KB swings, pull-ups, and ring dips aren't so technically difficult that I'm going to require close supervision 6-9 months later. I know that personal trainers at big gyms are expensive, but most people (at least those in my socio-economic class) might use a trainer a few times to get the hang of it, then break off on their own. I don't know anyone who gets (or for that matter, needs) a personal trainer at every session. When I started CF, I was under the impression that the idea was to get away from the 24 hour fitness gyms and put together a great gym in your garage. Now, it appears the idea is to stop paying $20-30 per month at 24 hour fitness and start paying $150 per month at a CF affiliate. Fiscal fitness, so to speak...
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