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Old 05-03-2006, 12:34 PM   #1
Bobbi Beglau Salvini
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I need advice on boxing gloves. I have fore arm, elbow and shoulder issues and I want equipment that will get me through high repetition work outs.
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Old 05-03-2006, 07:59 PM   #2
Eugene R. Allen
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You mention high rep workouts and are asking about boxing gloves. Do you mean high rep bag workouts? If that's what you are talking about, boxing gloves will do very little for forearm, elbow and shoulder issues - that impact will remain the same with or without gloves.

If it is indeed gloves you need to protect your hands for bag workouts what you need are bag gloves, not boxing gloves. You may also want to consider hand wraps to protect your hands and wrists under the gloves. Go to www.ringside.com and on the home page you get to you will see what are called Super Bag Gloves. I have an older version of these gloves and they are very good.

I am not clear on what you are looking for or what you want them to do. Can you clarify what you are looking for?
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Old 05-10-2006, 11:26 AM   #3
Bobbi Beglau Salvini
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Eugene: Hope this is not too much detail. Most of the time I am hitting targets and heavy bags. I guess I could use what I have for sparing since I scale back to avoid injuring my partners anyway. I take 11 hours of classes a week. Some of these involve back to back self defense classes such as kick boxing and Krav Maga. Several of us have developed tennis elbow and I have also aggravated an old work injury of bursitis in the fore arms. I have arthritis in one of my rotator cuffs with thickening of the tendons that run under the bone, also from another work injury, that I would prefer to not aggravate. My instructor has asked me to pick up the aggressiveness of my training, and this seams to be in direct conflict with the body.

I use short hand wraps because they don’t get in the way when we jump form hitting to techniques. Not as much protection, but every other person in my gym has given up on them. Most recently I have gone to over the counter wrist guards, and I have put some foam in my gloves which has helped. But the wrist guards are a pain because getting in and out of my gloves and target mitts is slow, and they are hard to do push ups and sprawls in if these are part of our drills.

I now have given up on bare fists on the bags and targets and I have given up on grappling gloves for now also. Not enough protection while I am healing up. This also caused me some body damage. Got a broken bone above the knuckle from poor technique (boxers break of the rt. pinky), and then broke a bone in the wrist at the top of my left thumb. *lol* I have a broken finger now but that was unrelated. My partner plucked out of a front head lock, my coach had told me to hang on to. I like this reality stuff!

I have also seen the information on exercises for tennis elbow and have started in slow on those. My legs are very developed, and I guess my upper body needs to catch up. Good equipment would be a blessing. You have already given me some good advice, anything else you can advise, I would be grateful!

Sorry for not responding sooner, with kids and all, Wed. night is my only chance to get on the board.
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Old 05-10-2006, 01:31 PM   #4
Eugene R. Allen
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Grappling gloves don't provide enough protection for your hands when you work on the bags and regular bag gloves are too clumsy for when you move away from the bag and do other techniques and grapple. In addition to sounding like a business opportunity for someone who makes gloves this sounds like something that can only be fixed by taking the gloves on and off. The flimsy bag gloves that proved zero thumb protection and amount to just a padded mitten are not what you want. The Ringside Super Bag gloves I mentioned in my previous post close with velcro so they go on and off really easy. I think it is a mistake to not wrap your hands. If you're going to train hard and hit hard you better prepare your fragile little bones for the punishment. I like the long Mexican wraps with just a hit of elasticity. I take 4 wraps around my knuckles, go between each of my fingers and around my thumb to hold down the knuckle wraps and then criss cross the remainder down my wrist. I'm big on wrist protection. I do drills on the bag and then just throw the gloves down next to the bag so I can put them back on when it's bag time again.

I love your enthusiasm and willingness to push yourself as hard as you are. But you only have so many bones in your hands and I'll bet you use them for other than smacking people...although you did say you had kids. With a good wrap job you can satisfy that slave driver instructor of yours and still keep your hands safe.So, wrap em, glove em and whack em. You get your workout and keep your bones intact at the same time. Hand wrapping is an art. If you do it properly and DON'T wrap your fist last so you get that stupid loop of wrap that comes loose after awhile you can go through your drills with no problem. A few strips of tape will hold everything in place as well. My wrap job always stays in place and that elastic stuff seems to stay on your hand better than the regular no stretch stuff.

Do you punch in the air sometimes? If so that might be your elbow problem. Hyperextension. Be sure to keep some bicep tension when you punch so your arm doesn't extend all the way. On the bag make sure you range yourself so that you don't lock your elbow out just as or worse just before you hit the bag and then have the bag contact your fist with that just locked elbow. Ouch, a sure path to elbow pain.

One last thought...are you warming up well before you start tearing up the bags and focus mits. You need to get a sweat on before you start letting the leather fly with abandon. Consider some neoprene elbow sleeves to warm and support your elbows, that might help too.

Knox gelatin might help too. Great for your fingernails and joints.

Hope this helps.
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Old 05-10-2006, 02:15 PM   #5
Dan Strametz
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Yea you need to talk with that slave driver instructor too!
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Old 05-11-2006, 01:44 AM   #6
Elliot Royce
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11 hours per week, impressive! I have the Ringside bag gloves with gel and they work pretty well. When I'm really going at it, I use wraps and also put a small sponge on top of the knuckles first. However my trainer helps me put on the gloves -- don't know if I could drag them on with all that wrapping. Ringside also sells a foam knuckle protector which you could use.

As an orthopedist's dream, I would warn you about letting too much damage occur. When you're older, these type of injuries can cause arthritis or just limit your range of motion.
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Old 05-13-2006, 04:59 PM   #7
Bobbi Beglau Salvini
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Eugene:

I did some homework based on your previous advice with the Ringside folks. They said they had a glove designed to for max protection that also has a fast velcro opening which is called the Safety Training Glove Style #RPE which I am going to try. They said it was built to go from heavy intense bag work to sparring and would not degrade. It has a four layer padding system and strong wrist support. I will also go back to using full hand wraps. My doctor also told me to tape my wrists before I put on the wraps, and he told me to continue to use a compression band below the elbow to dissipate the force of blows. My partner has let me use her gloves and they are so much easier on the body than mine, I am confident that the right equipment will help me. Right now I look like a gladiator with a finger cast, fore arm braces, tennis elbow band and a cuff for my elbow that compresses the tendons and pulls them down from binding under the arthritic bone in the rotator cuff. This latter device the Doc said I need to ware at the gym and in bed for the rest of my life. The rest I am anxious to get rid of, because it is freaking out people at my gym.

Yes, we have a good warm up program, and again my doctor has given me some stretches to do too.

What is a neoprene elbow sleeve? What I ware may be similar, it is called a heelbow sleeve. It is heavy cotton with elastic with a strong elastic compression band knit in at the top and includes a pad on the elbow. It’s about 8" long.

Yes we do shadow boxing, and that is good advice.

It is funny you mention the Knox. Based on advice from a nurse friend I just bought a product called Four Flex. It is for horses, and she said it is great for tendons. Similar to Knox, I eat chicken bone cartilage which I understand is even better. Some people would not find this palatable or might think it too crude, but it makes my nails strong.

Elliot: I hear you about the geriatrics outcomes of broken bones. This last one is through the knuckle, and ripped up the tendons too. The ER doc said it would catch up to me, and arthritis is in my future. I already know how that is with the shoulder.

I also found great benefit from the foam I put in my gloves. Funny story, I wanted something that was tapered on the edges, so I went to Fredericks and purchased a set of faulsies. The first time I used them, I lost one of them. Yep, it was in lost and found, and it gave lots of folks a hardy belly laugh both when they found it, and when I retrieved it!

Dan: If you read my post on how to pick a training facility, posted under Crosspit/ Street fighting, you will see I love my slave driver instructors! :-) The intensity and realism is what I am looking for. Having been attack once I don’t want phoney training that makes me think I can do things that I can’t. What I have learned is that I can do lots of bag and target work, and I can do high intensity, but I need to limit the duration if I am going to do both. Two hours of similar motions is too much for me. I have also learned that every time I have been injured it was in the week I did a modified Crossfit that lasted over an hour. That is perfect for most people, but in addition to kick boxing and Krav Maga, I also jog and sprint a 5 K once a week, take Jujitsu grappling, Ti Chi, fencing, a cardio kick boxing class and take and teach rhythmic tap classes. I have spent most of my life suffering with health issues that left me with lethargy and pain. I am now healthy for the first time and I feel fantastic!

I am catching up on life, and I appreciate you folks helping me around small obstacles! I am ready for “Wrap’em, Glove’em and whack’em! I love it! Thank You! Bobbi
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Old 05-14-2006, 12:00 AM   #8
Eugene R. Allen
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The sleeve I am talking about is simply a neoprene rubber support brace much like a knee brace that would be like wearing a short section of a wetsuit on your elbow. What it would do is compress everything under it and provide support to your elbow joint, your muscles and your tendons and also keep everything warm. A good warm up and ice afterwards will probably help keep you in the fight.
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Old 05-14-2006, 01:58 PM   #9
Gary Turner
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Hi!
Here's a quick bit of advice from a pro kickboxer on the K1 circuit. I would suggest wearing 10oz plus gloves on the bag rather than bag gloves. The weight is more appropriate both to fitness and fight sport reality. Also will give more cushioning to protect from impact.

But the root cause of your problem may be incorrect punching. The stesses that you are describing are possibly from too much lateral movement on impact, meaning that your body is not in correct alignment. At the point of impact you should have no movement anywhere in your body except through the target - the whole body behind the strike.

It will be worth you getting with an experienced striking coach, and checking your technique all the way through.

Get appropriate medical attention, such as a chiropractor to re-align any bones, working together with a physio to repair the soft tissue. Then, build up the contact slowly, giving yourself a chance to recover from the injury, while also learning the new way of throwing the adjusted techniques.

I've also seen a version of the padded knuckles wrist supports, and I think that they are a great idea and great product.

Good luck with it!

Gary 'Smiler' Turner
www.teamgaryturner.com
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Old 05-14-2006, 06:08 PM   #10
Bobbi Beglau Salvini
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Gary:

The gloves I ordered are 14 oz. so should be good there, and they are Ringside’s best for extended work outs according to them. They are training gloves. I have many good coaches at my gym, and I had a lot of things to fix in the beginning, but I will get some additional advice. I am working with a physietrist, an MD and a physical therapist specializing in sports medicine. Looks like another trip to the chiro is in order. I am currently fairly recovered, but something can’t be right for me to have this happen so all this advice I am getting has been great.

If you saw me you would see I am disproportionately strong in the legs, which translates to some strong punching. At least people have been saying I hit hard. My fencing coach also told me I have a fast muscle twitch typical of people in a small region in Europe. I suspect that my genetics is a factor in all this.

I can’t thank you all enough!!!! Bobbi
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