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Old 07-13-2010, 09:57 AM   #21
Jamie J. Skibicki
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Re: Study finds correlation between C.O.G. and Speed

"This post has nothing to do with race -- just differences in the genetic composition of certain populations"

"You believe faulty science IMO."

Which is it.


"The point I was making is that EVERYONE can trace their ancestory back to the sub-saharan."

We can also trace our ancenstory back to single celled creatures, but there have been a few changes since then.
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Old 07-13-2010, 10:05 AM   #22
Shane Skowron
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Re: Study finds correlation between C.O.G. and Speed

edit: nevermind, didn't read correctly

Last edited by Shane Skowron; 07-13-2010 at 10:08 AM..
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Old 07-13-2010, 10:44 AM   #23
Jesse Gray
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Re: Study finds correlation between C.O.G. and Speed

I think the big issue here James is that using a blanket statement like "Blacks" is far too general a term. There are a certain type of black people, almost entirely from West Africa" that tend to dominate speed based sports but these people are certainly not representative of all people with dark skin. By making the assumption that all dark skinned people are fast and muscular, one falls into a potentially biased thought process. I would also ague on the other hand that certain populations of black West Africans do appear to have some natural genetic advantages in speed and power based sports as do east Africans in endurance sports. Additionally, there are a myriad cultural factors that certainly complicate the whole issue and undoubtedly impact the athletic paths children choose to pursue.
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Old 07-13-2010, 11:00 AM   #24
Jamie J. Skibicki
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Re: Study finds correlation between C.O.G. and Speed

What he said. ^^^

And it's Jamie, not James.

Last edited by Jamie J. Skibicki; 07-13-2010 at 11:02 AM..
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Old 07-13-2010, 11:15 AM   #25
Jason Wallis
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Re: Study finds correlation between C.O.G. and Speed

Very well put. To argue that there are no genetic differences besides skin tone between races is pure fantasy.
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Originally Posted by Jesse Gray View Post
I think the big issue here James is that using a blanket statement like "Blacks" is far too general a term. There are a certain type of black people, almost entirely from West Africa" that tend to dominate speed based sports but these people are certainly not representative of all people with dark skin. By making the assumption that all dark skinned people are fast and muscular, one falls into a potentially biased thought process. I would also ague on the other hand that certain populations of black West Africans do appear to have some natural genetic advantages in speed and power based sports as do east Africans in endurance sports. Additionally, there are a myriad cultural factors that certainly complicate the whole issue and undoubtedly impact the athletic paths children choose to pursue.
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Old 07-13-2010, 11:29 AM   #26
Jesse Gray
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Re: Study finds correlation between C.O.G. and Speed

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Originally Posted by Jamie J. Skibicki View Post
What he said. ^^^

And it's Jamie, not James.
My apologies sir! Jamie it is from now on.
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Old 07-13-2010, 11:38 AM   #27
Angelina Kelly
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Re: Study finds correlation between C.O.G. and Speed

Ok this discussion is interesting overall and we recently had a discussion in our statistics class about avoidance of using race as a factor in statistics. Although I think our ancestry can have a basis for some of our tendencies.

Although this below is the craziest thing I've ever heard and I've never heard any basis to suggest such a thing, where the hell does this idea come from:
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Originally Posted by Aushion Chatman View Post
The second is from evolutionist theory that blacks evolved from strong/but less intelligent gorillas, Asians evolved from the orangutan (smarter than gorillas), and whites evolved from the most intelligent primate of all the chimpanzee
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Old 07-13-2010, 12:20 PM   #28
Troy Becker
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Re: Study finds correlation between C.O.G. and Speed

I thought that blacks' calf/ankle structure helped with running too
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Old 07-13-2010, 01:14 PM   #29
Steven Price
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Re: Study finds correlation between C.O.G. and Speed

I’m a population geneticist and evolutionist. As the name implies, population geneticists spend their time studying genetic differences between populations. All organisms that have been studied show genetic differences between populations for many, many characteristics. These types of studies have been going on for 100+ years. The literature is overwhelming. Many different words have been developed to describe these “genetically different populations.” If you are a plant population geneticist, and you can show some correlation of genetic structure with the environment, then you might chose to use the word “ecotype.” So a particular plant species may be divided up in to “ecotypes.” If you study mice populations you might use the word “race.” You would say that your mouse species was divided up in to various “races.” If these “races” were widespread and recognizable, and you were a taxonomist, you might divide your species into “subspecies.” “Subspecies” is a word used for both plants and animals. If you were a horticulturist, you might use the word “variety.” If you were a corn breeder you might use the word “line.” If you are studying paternal Y-Chromosome variation around the world in humans you might use the word “haplotype.” In the latter case you migh say "haplotype R1b1b2a1a1d1* is wide spread in populations of the North Atlantic." My point in this is that many words are used to describe “genetic variation.” If races exist in other organisms, then, as an evolutionist, it is reasonable to assume races exist in humans. To assert that “races” do not exist in humans simply does not square with genetic evidence or biology. Pygmies are genetically different from indigenous populations of Sweden. Most population geneticists would say they are different races. DNA evidence is showing fascinating patterns of genetic variation around the world; it is contributing greatly to our understanding of human origins and migrations. Modern medicine is now recognizing that there are “racial” differences in response to medicines. It would be a shame if medical practicioners were to become blind to patients’ racial differences—this may be good politics but bad medicne, bad biology, and bad science. To say that we all come from sub-Sahara Africa says nothing about the intervening 50,000 years of genetic changes due to genetic drift, natural selection, hybridization with other hominids, and migration. Sorting out how these all work to explain the present genetic differentiation found in Homo sapiens continues. Science is inexorable.
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Old 07-13-2010, 01:24 PM   #30
Laurion Burchall
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Re: Study finds correlation between C.O.G. and Speed

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Originally Posted by Jamie J. Skibicki View Post
Aushion,
Blacks make up statistically higher percentage of NBA and NFL and USA Olympic Track team than their representation in the populace at large. The percentages are much further off when you look at position that require speed. How do you explain this?
By now part of the problem will be that parents/coaches are themselves biased and push darker kids to speed positions and lighter kids to slower positions starting at an early age. Kids will also picking up on the cultural messages -- "white people throw things, black people sprint" and that guides their choices as well.

Another way of looking at the question would be to ask "where are the fast white athletes?". There are some fast sports that have very few blacks in the US (as least when I watch): javelin throw, ice hockey, speed skating, lacrosse.

With so much cultural bias surrounding race/ethnicity/nationality and sports events it becomes very hard to determine what is genetic and what is a cultural artifact.
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