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Old 07-26-2011, 10:07 PM   #41
Evan Jackson
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Re: Gillian Mounsey Article

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Originally Posted by Jim Denofa View Post
I am diggin' your hostility big guy! The Castro article that you are refering to is an article to give advice to competitive CrossFiters. Not everyday mainsite peeps. I know I don't hit the top of the second pull of my snatches when I do "Randy" because it is not nessecary with 75 lbs for 75 reps. But when I snatch anything over 70 kilos I do. That article makes sense for me because I am a competitive CrossFitter. What would not make sense for me is an article about how to do a wheelie an a motorcycle, since I can't ride a motorcycle.
Really? Because at no point in the summary does it make it clear that it is only for competitive CrossFitters. In fact, the title says it's for "Workouts and Competitions".

I think you're deluding yourself.

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Originally Posted by Jim Denofa View Post
So you need to be "trained" to use common sense? Deadlift 315 lbs 45 times in conjunction with 30 inch box jumps. My 1 rep max is only 300 but OK I'll give it a shot, after all it's on the internet! Come on man. If people are that helplessly brain dead then we are all in trouble.
You really don't get it at all. And it's kinda sad.
 
Old 07-26-2011, 10:13 PM   #42
Eric Montgomery
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Re: Gillian Mounsey Article

Evan, if it makes you so mad don't do it. I'm no genius but I feel like I'm smart enough to pick and choose which things look like good ideas and which don't. Plenty of other people do CF or CF-style training yet still don't care what CF.com or HQ say.

I'm trying to connect the dots between your contributions to this thread vs. your last one talking about getting a six pack to get stronger...little help?
 
Old 07-26-2011, 11:02 PM   #43
Evan Jackson
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Re: Gillian Mounsey Article

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Originally Posted by Eric Montgomery View Post
Evan, if it makes you so mad don't do it. I'm no genius but I feel like I'm smart enough to pick and choose which things look like good ideas and which don't. Plenty of other people do CF or CF-style training yet still don't care what CF.com or HQ say.
I don't do it.

Let me get this straight though. You feel like you're smart enough, so you're obviously not sure. I guess that means that you might not know, so you're having to rely on guessing. So that means that whatever you choose to do might not be a particularly good choice for your goals, and you're basically just going at it blind without actually understanding what you're doing. Good job.

It's really beside the point though...Jim's comment was, paraphrased: people don't realize there's more to CrossFit than they have contact with, which is the main site and their local box.

The point is, the main site and the local box IS their reality. So if those two suck, then CrossFit sucks for them, and they don't have the knowledge to do it HOW THEY WANT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Montgomery View Post
I'm trying to connect the dots between your contributions to this thread vs. your last one talking about getting a six pack to get stronger...little help?
No help. If you haven't figured it out by now, you probably aren't smart enough to pick and choose good workouts.
 
Old 07-26-2011, 11:13 PM   #44
Aushion Chatman
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Re: Gillian Mounsey Article

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Originally Posted by Joey Lajoie View Post
One thing I noticed is that Gillian came into crossfit big and strong and was crushing most others from the beginning. She then began to listen to others who told her that she was "too big and bulky to do crossfit" She then began a strict zone diet and lost weight to make happy the people who were most likely jealous of her in the first place.

Had Gillian maintained her size and strength I believe she could very well be the top female crossfitter today. Unfortunately, sometimes the first to jump in and offer advice don't necessarily to it with the very best of intentions.

This seems to be a prevalent problem amongst many of us, we read about caloric restriction and zone dieting, we see the abs of the top performing men and women and think we have to look like them.

I can say for myself that once my bodyfat drops below 10%, I can watch my abs get ripped and my performance suffer.
Yeah, this is where the disconnect is for me...

You come into CF crushing folks...as soon as you notice you are not crushing folks...don't you go back to what you were doing? To me it was either bad coaching or bad workout log keeping, or both...I wouldn't think it would take a defeat at the Games to realize you are weaker and less prepared than you were the year before.

I agree with the prevailing sentiment, she needed a good coach and got one in Rippetoe...
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Old 07-26-2011, 11:33 PM   #45
Evan Jackson
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Re: Gillian Mounsey Article

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Originally Posted by Aushion Chatman View Post
Yeah, this is where the disconnect is for me...

You come into CF crushing folks...as soon as you notice you are not crushing folks...don't you go back to what you were doing? To me it was either bad coaching or bad workout log keeping, or both...I wouldn't think it would take a defeat at the Games to realize you are weaker and less prepared than you were the year before.
It's entirely possible all it was was her succumbing to peer pressure. She fully admits not having her head on straight for a while...after all that's one of the main points of the article. Whoever she was around took advantage of that and pressured her into becoming what they wanted, instead of helping her get to where she originally wanted.

Sure, some of that is definitely her fault, and she's not shirking responsibility at all, she just highlights what appears to be a pervasive mentality in CrossFit that's downright unhealthy.
 
Old 07-27-2011, 12:35 AM   #46
Adam Carlson
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Re: Gillian Mounsey Article

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Originally Posted by Evan Jackson View Post
I don't do it.

Let me get this straight though. You feel like you're smart enough, so you're obviously not sure. I guess that means that you might not know, so you're having to rely on guessing. So that means that whatever you choose to do might not be a particularly good choice for your goals, and you're basically just going at it blind without actually understanding what you're doing. Good job.

It's really beside the point though...Jim's comment was, paraphrased: people don't realize there's more to CrossFit than they have contact with, which is the main site and their local box.

The point is, the main site and the local box IS their reality. So if those two suck, then CrossFit sucks for them, and they don't have the knowledge to do it HOW THEY WANT.


No help. If you haven't figured it out by now, you probably aren't smart enough to pick and choose good workouts.
Wow man, you get the prize for both the most confusing paragraph in this thread and for shooting your mouth off. I'm still not sure what your point is in all of this, where you are coming from, and why you are posting on this board if all you have to say is to try and be negative towards the people who are disagreeing with you.

It sounds from your posts in this thread and in your other thread (re: six pack abs = stronger) that you haven't found what you're looking for in CF, and have had a bad experience as a result of it (either from the training itself or the people that you are training with). I'm sorry if that's the case, but CF isn't right for everyone. CF with excellent coaching and programming might still not be the right thing for you, and poorly done CF is no good for anyone. If you don't like what you've been doing, change it up and find something else that works. There are more options for strength and conditioning outside of CF.

Just so this post doesn't end on a sour note, I will say that I agree with you about an unhealthy attitude being found in CFers, although I won't say that this is true of ALL CFers. People come in with their own baggage, and CF provides an excellent way for people to punish themselves in an effort to feel better about themselves. The same could be said of just about any sport/group though. There are many strength athletes that really don't care about their overall health and just pursue strength. There are many distance athletes that don't care about their overall health and pursue that elusive marathon/triathlon/ironman time. Tennis, gymnastics, basketball, football, it doesn't matter. There is always the possibility of someone taking it waaaay too far and hurting themselves in the process.
 
Old 07-27-2011, 03:16 AM   #47
Wayne Riddle
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Re: Gillian Mounsey Article

I would say part of Gillian's issues were bad coaching. You join something new, the person seems to know what they are talking about so you listen. Only later do you realize that person really didn't know that much about training people.
 
Old 07-27-2011, 05:12 AM   #48
Justin Z. Smith
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Re: Gillian Mounsey Article

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Originally Posted by Jim Denofa View Post
Does CrossFit encourage poor form. No.
From Glassman in 2006 (in Evidence Based Fitness, CF Journal 53 1/2007)

"Not all form faults are dangerous. Most clearly are not. Most increase the metabolic costs of an exercise or workout, i.e. reduce efficiency, and are not only acceptable but beneficial to conditioning. But what is certain is that only by working to exhaustion, where form faults are ineluctable, will we push the margins of power output where form falters. We push to the point of exhaustion and form breakdown to 1) increase/improve the safety of high output max efforts, and 2) maximize work capacity. How simple is that?"

Justin
 
Old 07-27-2011, 05:31 AM   #49
Greg Pellegrini
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Re: Gillian Mounsey Article

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Originally Posted by Evan Jackson View Post
I don't do it.

Let me get this straight though. You feel like you're smart enough, so you're obviously not sure. I guess that means that you might not know, so you're having to rely on guessing. So that means that whatever you choose to do might not be a particularly good choice for your goals, and you're basically just going at it blind without actually understanding what you're doing. Good job.
umm ... what?

Take some time to organize your thoughts there bud.

Getting back to the topic of the Mounsey article, I think the general message to get out of her article is not that Crossfit is bad, but is more along the lines of learning to have respect for oneself. Much of Gillian's athletic career was based on aesthetics of her body (bodybuilding and Crossfit) which caused her to not train properly and skewed her mental image of herself. Rip and her husband were able to give her the confidence and encouragement she needed to be able to a be healthy athlete.

"I learned to embrace who I am and to not care about fitting into meaningless cultural ideals."

Personally, I never really thought Crossfit cared much about aesthetics. I saw photos of Crossfitters and they looked athletic, but what really got me interested were the incredible feats they were doing. I followed the mainsite as my program for awhile. I would scale down the weight or reps/rounds if I felt that it was too much or if it would compromise my form. I tried to stay perfect for every squat, push-up, etc (tried being the keyword).

There were definitely times when I blindly followed the WOD; I did the same 150 pull-ups and burpees workout mentioned in the article and it SUCKED (and in retrospect it was pointless). But I kept on pushing myself through the WOD thinking my tenacity would pay off in the end and that Chris Spealler could do it in less than 5 minutes.

Crossfit workouts are definitely addicting because of how intense they can be. The high workload and exhausting effort payoff with a large endorphin release. I found myself wanting to push myself to exhaustion to get that endorphin high, and sometimes I still do. I am now realizing that this can be detrimental to my health in the long run and I am currently reworking my program.

Crossfit definitely helped me learn some core principals and I will always love it for that. But without a proper coach or programming I wasn't making any significant gains. So I can relate to Gillian's story and I do not think she is blaming Crossfit. If anything is to blame it may be her skewed mindset and self-image and the fact that she never had a proper coach. I still think Crossfit is great and would recommend it to friends, but I would warn them to educate themselves first or get a coach and tell them to first learn technique then intensity.

Last edited by Greg Pellegrini : 07-27-2011 at 05:33 AM. Reason: typos
 
Old 07-27-2011, 06:40 AM   #50
Doug Lantz
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Re: Gillian Mounsey Article

Here's a post from Gillian Mounsey on the SS forum, seems reasonable to me.

I believe HQ has moved away from recommending base Zone, it's just not enough calories to support most people's training.

You are correct, CrossFit competitions measure performance and CrossFit does not recommend an unhealthy body weight or body fat.

A little background:

When I started CrossFit there was no written testing requirement to get certified as a Level 1 CrossFit Instructor. If someone attended a two day Level 1 Certification and participated in all lectures and movement sessions, demonstrated a level of understanding, he passed and was considered a Level 1 CrossFit certified coach. This put inexperienced coaches advising people. I fell victim to bad advice. (CrossFit has since changed this and Level 1 includes a test that must be passed for certification.)

Secondly, CrossFit recommends (or at least did in 2008) the Zone diet. If followed the way it is outlined in the books by Dr. Sears and the CrossFit journal - the diet is a very low calorie diet. For example, an athletic well muscled female should consume 14 blocks per day. If no additional fat is added - that works out to roughly 1,400 calories per day.

The aesthetics are not a side effect of the training alone. Nutritionists have stated that 90% of what you look like after genetics, is diet. (As a former bodybuilder, I agree.) When I stopped "zoning", I gained weight and body fat training as a CrossFitter. After the initial adaptation phase occurred, CrossFit workouts alone were no longer as potent a tool for body fat loss.

I found that the culture of CrossFit celebrated those with extremely low BF as our American culture does. Like any community, CrossFit is a cross section of our culture - our media celebrates low BF and lean physiques, so did the CrossFit community. I fell victim to this.

For me CrossFit was the tool to be part of this very same mentality.

Last edited by Doug Lantz : 07-27-2011 at 06:43 AM.
 
 


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