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Old 01-17-2011, 08:40 AM   #21
Shannon Mullens
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Re: hang snatch

Jim - I'm curious to the all-or-nothing kind of approach as well. What do you generally do when you have someone who consistently drops the bar or falls, or can't complete the lift for some reason? Or has your approach worked 100% of the time?
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Old 01-17-2011, 12:49 PM   #22
Jim Moser
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Re: hang snatch

Tamara,
I have one simple rule on this. The sooner you get the bar back on the floor the better. I see nothing wrong with using other exercises to break up the monotony of training. Some times when placed right in a program it is really effective. Speed under the bar is a constant battle. The best advice I can give you on this is never leave your first set with weights until you are moving at the speed you are happy with. For example if your first set with weights is 25 kilos do not go up to 30 kilos until you are moving really well with the 25 kilo's. This may take 4 to 6 sets in some cases. Think of it as starting a engine, you really should not start racing the engine until it is properly warmed up. Speed is something you have to focus on all the time when doing snatches. Somedays will be better then others. The main thing is that you learn to leave your last workout behind you. Just because you are slow one day does not mean you will be slow the next day. I would have had you do maybe a light workout in full snatches focusing on nothing but speed. In your case it sounds like the hang snatches worked, which is always a great thing. However, you may have benefited more by the short change in your routine and mind set. It is when change becomes a habit that you run into problems. To sum up really quick, change is okay as long as the goal is to get the bar back on the ground as soon as possible. I hope this helps in your quest to be all you can be. Let me know if you have any other questions or need more clarification.

Aloha'
Jim
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Old 01-17-2011, 01:08 PM   #23
Tamara Cohen
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Re: hang snatch

Thanks, Jim. I really appreciate it. I am always happy to get the bar back on the floor as soon as possible. In this case, I had two workouts in a row where my jump looked like it was in slow motion. I do have some positional work in my template, so in my next workout, I just focused on crushing the heck out of my jump from the high hang. But, I agree with you about speed. That is what my coach drills into my brain. Stay fast, stay fast, and don't move up if you're not fast.
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Old 01-17-2011, 01:27 PM   #24
Jim Moser
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Re: hang snatch

Shannon,

If the beginner cannot do a full snatch with the bar, I immediately check their form and strength in squatting. If they cannot do a proper squat, chances of them doing a snatch correctly is very slim. As their squat gets stronger and they start squatting with proper form they will eventually be able to perform a full snatch with the bar. Once this happens then I begin the progression. I have never had a case when this has not worked. I have about a 90% success rate in teaching someone to full snatch on the first workout.

If you are talking about a more experienced lifter who continually misses a weight, I may have them start another wave of attempts. Going down and then working their way back up again. I have had lifters make a weight on their 15th attempt. If that does not produce better results I may change their warm up pattern next time. If it is a mental issue I will have them take a heavier weight. For example say they are constantly missing 60 kilos. On the next workout i will have them take 56kilos and then take 61kilos for their top end set. In real stubborn cases I will mix load with different weights making it real hard for the athlete to add up the weight on the bar so they are not sure what weight they are lifting. I may tell an athlete he is lifting 59 kilos when in reality they have 60 kilos on the bar. I find once they do the weight, it is usually no problem from here on out. The ideal thing you want your athlete to think about is making the weight. Chances are if they are focusing on making the weight, everything else will take care of itself. Please let me know if you need more clarification on this issue.

Aloha'
Jim

Last edited by Jim Moser : 01-17-2011 at 01:31 PM.
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Old 01-17-2011, 01:36 PM   #25
Jim Moser
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Re: hang snatch

Tamara,

Your coach is spot on. When one has speed and strength, there are no limits. I am glad to hear it worked out awesome for you. Great job by your coach and you.

Aloha'
Jim
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Old 01-17-2011, 02:30 PM   #26
Michael Pilhofer
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Re: hang snatch

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Moser View Post
Tamara,
I have one simple rule on this. The sooner you get the bar back on the floor the better. I see nothing wrong with using other exercises to break up the monotony of training. Some times when placed right in a program it is really effective. Speed under the bar is a constant battle.
Agreed 1000%

Work the full lifts with position, bar path, and speed as your goals always...regardless of what you "think" you should be lifting. Pause when the training calls for it to work some assistance lifts, but get back to the full lift as quickly as possible.

This is where a great coach can help.
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Old 01-17-2011, 02:59 PM   #27
Shannon Mullens
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Re: hang snatch

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Originally Posted by Jim Moser View Post
Shannon,

If the beginner cannot do a full snatch with the bar, I immediately check their form and strength in squatting. If they cannot do a proper squat, chances of them doing a snatch correctly is very slim. As their squat gets stronger and they start squatting with proper form they will eventually be able to perform a full snatch with the bar. Once this happens then I begin the progression. I have never had a case when this has not worked. I have about a 90% success rate in teaching someone to full snatch on the first workout.
I was just curious how you'd approach a problem child like me. For me, strength and range of motion weren't problems - it was all about coordination. My coach ended up breaking up the movements - I did ground to overhead, hang to overhead, ground to hang, drop snatches, ad nauseum before putting it all together and getting things "fixed." Once I got the coordination down, I added 13kg to my PR immediately.

Do you often find coordination issues the result of incorrect teaching methodology, or do you more find that most people's first problem to address is strength, and by the time you get that up to speed they have the coordination in the pieces that you put together to get a solid snatch (OHS, squats in general, etc) so the coordination issues never manifest?
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Old 01-17-2011, 03:28 PM   #28
Jim Moser
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Re: hang snatch

Shannon,

Do you want my "Honest" answer or "The Politically Correct" answer?


Jim
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Old 01-17-2011, 03:46 PM   #29
Tamara Cohen
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Re: hang snatch

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Originally Posted by Jim Moser View Post
Shannon,

Do you want my "Honest" answer or "The Politically Correct" answer?


Jim
I'll answer for her because we both want your honest answer. Neither of us deals with political correctness very well.
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Old 01-17-2011, 04:23 PM   #30
Lincoln Brigham
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Re: hang snatch

MORE SUMO DEADLIFT HIGH PULLS!

(kidding)
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