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Exercises Movements, technique & proper execution

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Old 03-12-2004, 08:17 AM   #11
Matt Toupalik
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Ryan-I agree with your post.Since the primary goal of Crossfit is to increase strength/conditioning/work output/etc, I think skills work on the heavy bag would best be served by separating it.

How about just throwing straight punches(jab/cross)against the bag and shooting for a specific number of punches, like 100, before moving on to the next exercise?

Hooks and uppercuts require more technique, so by limiting oneself to just straight punches, it would make it more practical for those who are less experienced at throwing punches.
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Old 03-12-2004, 09:14 AM   #12
Ben Gimball
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Ryan,

I think that you are entirely correct regarding Bruce Lee. There is an excellent web site that speaks to that very issue, which I will post (as soon as I can find it), which relays your exact sentiments.

The article goes into detail about Lee's ability in various acts of strength and stamina. One thing that comes to mind is that his fastest two mile run time was only 15:00. Not slow, but certainly not even close to world class.

I will post the web site with this information if I can find it again.
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Old 03-12-2004, 09:35 AM   #13
Ralph
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Ryan,
The harsher the better. We're all here to learn from each other. (and, at least age-wise, I'm sure you have more experience in training than I so I humbly respect your thoughts).

You're absolutely correct. My method of training on the bag should probably be kept separate from the WODs since it is sport-specific. I use the bag training as a warm-up more out of time management. Like other members here I work and go to school, so I'm glad I even have time to train period.

You're also right about power and technique; they can't be seperated. That's why in my prior post I stated, "I don't necessarily aim for either power or endurance". I should have also added, "... though BOTH do result from bag training. Technique, power, endurance... they're are aspects of bag training and, depending on your approach, each aspect can be focused on specifically while training (whether one or all aspects).

One last note, after having begun Crossfit and the WODs, there was one month when I did not train on the bag (all I did was WOD). When I finally started back on the bag, I found my punches and kicks were much more supple and powerful. My aim was a bit off, but I worked that back in quickly. So going beyond theory, my training results actually supported what I had originally said.

What do you think? Have you experienced similar results with training WODs?

-Ralph
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Old 03-12-2004, 10:22 AM   #14
Robert Wolf
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Ralph-

I think there is a lot going on there. Ryan’s point and what we frequently experience around here is that one will focus on more powerful movements and find that endurance has improved in the bargain.

We frequently use tabata knees, elbows or round kicks but I have been frustrated by the inability to gauge relative effort. One person may be landing 15 knees/20 second effort and another 11. The person throwing 11 is throwing MUCH harder more penetrating knees and is much more metabolically challenged than the higher cycling person. Mixing both types of effort makes sense for the broadest possible stimulus.

I think Ryan’s suggestion is excellent BTW.

One more aside- This can quickly become a slippery area regarding general strength and conditioning (GPP) and sport specific training. You mentioned this Ralph and I think it is always important to keep in mind when considering program design.
Robb
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Old 03-12-2004, 06:51 PM   #15
Roy
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This is a good discussion so far. The bag is an excellent tool. A better tool for an avid kicker, however, is a Body Opponent Bag (BOB) Reason being is for turning, or lead leg hook kicks, and various crescents to the head that simply arent practical on the heavy bag. This is because the BOB has a head with give, and it helps gauge yourself better if you actually compete in MMA, kickboxing, Taekwondo, or any other art involving kicking.

Something I would like to share that I did a few times to prepare for an Olympic Taekwondo tournament. CARD KICKING. Similar to the deck of cards for PT (situps, squats, pushups, pullups) except you assign each suit to a kick. 10 of diamonds was 10 hard round houses(5 per leg) We ran through the deck nonstop while wearing a hogu(chest guard) and I will admit that it seemed to be as, if not more, taxing that several WOD's. I reccomend some of you to give it a try. Especially those in martial arts.

Cheers

Roy
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Old 03-12-2004, 08:36 PM   #16
Jason Lauer
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I've used the heavy bag a lot. Unfortunately my coach was an old school boxing coach and he would have us hit it non-stop for 25 mins. Depeding on how serious you were some people really attacked it, others just slapped it.

Robb you are right on with the inability to gauge effort in numbers. A real punch or kick takes much more out of a person than does the simple snap of that body part. Having been around boxers I've found that at the higher levels, when one is calmer, that they are able to just snap out many punches during a fight or sparring, which leaves them less tired, but, when they see a real opening or catch someone with their jab they have the ability to really turn on a punch in a split second. They do not need to throw every punch as a knockout punch. This is definitely the sport specific end of the discussion.

I picked up a great heavy bag NHB workout awhile ago. It is very simple if you don't mind taking it down (works better the heavier it is). You pick it up in a bear hug and run a said distance. You then slam the bag mount it and throw a given number of punches and elbows. This is a great drill you can incoporate many different time/rep schemes with it, as well as adding ground movement drills (move to side mount then back to mount etc.) and even practice submissions (falling arm bars etc.). With a grappling or throwing dummy the possibilites are even greater, one could incoporate many throws and lifts as well.

Ryan, I would like to hear any thoughts you had on my last post on the the psychology. I'm assuming you vacated it? As did others. Feel free to email me as I wouldn't want to disrupt this thread.
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Old 03-13-2004, 03:58 AM   #17
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I believe the article Mr. Gxxxxxx is trying to find is:

http://www.myodynamics.com/articles/bruce.html
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Old 03-13-2004, 07:12 AM   #18
Larry Lindenman
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That article is misleading and IMO irelavent. I could speak with some authority about this subject because I have trained within Bruce Lee's physical martial art of Jun Fan for 20 plus years. One of Lee's top students, Dan Inosanto, is the finest martial artist and the finest human being I hae ever met. I have met and trained with many "masters" in many martial arts. Inosanto was by far the most technically proficiant martial artist I have ever seen. He does not consider himself a master but has a VAST amount of knowledge, which he can apply effectively, in flow. He freely relates Bruce Lee was vastly better then him. Inosanto's abilties are unbelievable, I have trained for over twenty five years in martial arts and don't consider myself close to his level. I have to believe his assessment of Lee. Lee's strength and aerobic function played no role in why he was a great martial artist. Also remember he died young, in the early 70's. At the time most martial artists were shying away from any strength training, Lee embraced strength training.
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Old 03-13-2004, 08:01 AM   #19
Kevin Roddy
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Larry - You've met Dan Inosanto? There's a ton of quotes from him in a book I have, John Little's "Art of Expressing the Human Body".
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Old 03-13-2004, 09:19 AM   #20
Larry Lindenman
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Kevin, I've trained with him since 1983 and know him and his family very well, you will never meet a more humble and deadly man.
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