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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 04-23-2007, 06:07 PM   #21
Al Bulkley
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I really appreciate all the discussion here. It sounds like lots of good advice.

For the past few days I've gotten a few easy to moderate (in length & intensity) runs in and have also been mixing bodyweight exercises into the runs for some really good workouts.

It sounds like most of the advice here is split fairly evenly down the middle, along the lines of those who feel that the WOD along with SOME running is probably sufficient, and those who feel that it simply can't be done safely without a lot of running.

For those who have suggested that I stick to and scale the WOD's, the reason I don't follow the WOD is primarily a lack of equipment. No KB's, DB's, medicine balls, rower, climbing rope, bench, etc. The gym that I worked out at until very recently is the only place in the area (that I know of) that has O-L platforms, but the place is really cramped and not at all conducive to the WOD otherwise. I am planning on soon purchasing my own O-L bar and rubber plates to use in my driveway, and I do have a pull-up bar, dip bars, and room for pushups, but that's about it. I'm working on slowly expanding my stuff, but for now I am forced to stick with doing mostly bodyweight stuff.

Anyway, for right now I'm working out 3-4 days a week, doing pushups, squats, dips, and pullups, along with a 3-4 mile run a couple times a week, at a pace that is moderate to hard. I'm going to slowly increase the distance and when I get my weights in a few weeks, transition into a program like what I originally described, with maybe a little less running for a while than what I originally listed. A hard interval workout AND an LSD every 4 days IS kind of a lot for right now. I'll transition into the running slowly and keep this thread updated once in a while.
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Old 04-27-2007, 10:30 AM   #22
Brian Cornwell
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Most of the time the worst part of a marathon is the last few miles when your muscles are totally done and your bones, tendons etc. are taking the shock because your muscles aren't controlling anymore. Replicating this sensation in training is not only painful, but doesn't seem like it would do a lot for you in the way of injury prevention. THe reason most people (I think) reccommend a long run is to condition you gradually for this feeling, so that it doesn't shock your body as much. I ran my first marathon last May with no formal running training, just martial arts and weightlifting and finished in 3:24. I have run another, for which I, like you, did not want to compromise my CF progress. An idea that worked well for me is to prefatigue the running muscles. I would go on runs after heavy squats, DLs, cleans, etc, so it would be similar to the feeling of losing that muscle springiness, but I wouldn't have to run 15 miles to get to that point before I started getting what I wanted to get out of the run. Just an idea that worked for me, I don't know how safe/effective/physiologically sound it is, so take it with a grain of salt, but it might help you save some miles and still get some squats in...
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Old 05-01-2007, 10:23 PM   #23
Vincent Tam
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I'm planning to do a marathon in the beginning of July, and i have yet to start training because my track season has not ended, but will very soon. Would it be advisable to run only a long run once a week and do crossfit the rest of the days, with one other day set aside for sprint intervals? So pretty much, day 1: long run, day 2: CF, day 3: CF, day 4: rest, day 5: interval sprints, day 6: CF, day 7:CF, day 8: rest. Would that be too little running? I'm interested in this plan because I read that increasing VO2 max actually takes place when you're sprinting, so i'm assuming that long distance training isn't actually needed other than to prepare my legs for the beating. I also want to keep as much muscle mass on as possible because I'm planning to start MMA and will be doing wrestling once the season starts.
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Old 05-01-2007, 10:24 PM   #24
Vincent Tam
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woops, i accidentally wrote that the marathon is in the beginning of July. It's actually in the end.
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Old 05-02-2007, 07:03 AM   #25
Chris Mayo
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I recently read an article that recommended a training schedule like this (run Mon, Weds, Fri):
Week 1: 1.5, 1.5, 3.0
Week 2: 1.5, 2.2, 3.3
3: 2, 2.5, 3.5
4: 2, 3, 4
5: 2, 3, 4
6: 3, 2, 4.4
7: 2, 3.5, 5
8: 3.5, 4, 5.25...and so on for 29 weeks, where you'll hit 26.2 at the day 3 of week 29. The first two runs of the week are no more than 8 miles by the last part of the training, and the last run of the week is always the longest. I found it in an article about training for the Marine Corps Marathon.
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Old 05-02-2007, 07:21 AM   #26
Craig Loizides
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If you are already doing crossfit 4 times a week, you'll probably get more benefit from long intervals than sprint intervals. Something like Yasso 800's or mile repeats at 10k pace with short recoveries. I hate doing those, but find them helpful for the marathon. What distance do you run in track?
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Old 05-02-2007, 09:55 AM   #27
Matthew McCarty
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I just ran my first marathon last Sunday along with another CF'er and another guy who just did your basic marathon training program which consisted of running. I did CF as Rx'd with the addition of a long run on the weekend. The long runs averaged 8 or so miles. The other CF'er only did one 9 mile run several weeks before the Marathon. Besides that all he did was CF as Rx'd. The whole time since I started gearing up for the Marathon I hit PR's across the board from Strength to MET, etc. All of us went over 4 hours, the guy who did just CF did the best, I did the worst (almost 5 hours) and the runner beat me only by two minutes.

That said I believe I could have done better if I took on water/food during the first part of the race. I cramped in both Quads at about 13 miles and kept that cramp for about 10 miles when I finally was able to run it out. This hurt like %*%^ and slowed me WAY down.

The runner had no breakfast that morning and neither did the other CF'er. They too dropped off severely after the first half. I think they could have done better had they had breakfast that morning. And they too did not take on water/food during the first part of the marathon.

I think we are all smarter now and if/when we run again we will take better care as to our food/water intake in preparation for that kind of distance. We also know the pain to expect so it won't be so discouraging the second time around.

I also won't be doing any significant amount of long runs. I don't think they are necessary after seeing the performance of all three of us.

I may do long CF workouts like some of the Painstorms and some extra plyometric work but if your running technique is already good I think the long runs are a waste of time and counterproductive to your other CF goals.

The next day I mowed my lawn and cleaned some limbs off my roof; had some pain in my right Lateral Colateral ligament, had stiff muscles around the hip and of course my quads were pretty sore; but by yesterday it didn't hurt at all. Besides some obvious soreness and general fatigue I was fine. I did 30 MU for time yesterday in 9 min 17 s...a little slower than normal.

So in short I think just doing CF as Rx'd will get your prepared to finish a Marathon with a better than average time -- if you run it smart. Add a few longer runs won't hurt if you feel your joints need it to strengthen up.

Now -- if you want a really good time, well you'll probably have to get Marathon specific training.

--My two cents
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Old 05-03-2007, 03:57 PM   #28
Vincent Tam
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Thanks Matthew for the advice, I guess I'll stick to my plan. What do you mean by eating and drinking properly in the beginning of the race?? You actually eat and drink while running? Or do you mean eat/drink RIGHT before the run? And what do most people do consumption-wise to prepare right before a marathon? I know most people used to believe in carb loading, but I read some parts of Enter the Zone and saw that taking in a lot of fat helped people have better endurance, so I guess I'll load up on extra fat. What about the morning of the race and right before it? And during?
Craig, I run the 100meter and 200meter sprints in track.. hah so I guess I'll have to do those longer sprints you mentioned...:-(
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Old 05-04-2007, 04:28 PM   #29
Charles Applin
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Going off wild assumptions, but the carbo loading are a benefit for runners that have very low body fat. They have no energy reserves to call upon so the carbs become that reserve. If you have 10% or more BF I think you have plenty of stored energy so long as you stay hydrated and keep heart rate around the aerobic area.

Cornwell's idea of pre-fatique the muscles sounds interesting. Guess you could do a 20 minute Fight Gone Bad, Chelsea or a Filth Fifty workout then run an hour for distance. You've worn out the body, now the run does the rest.

As for water, during my marathon at the 20 mile mark, I just crashed with a severe leg cramp. It was that that got me to suggest keeping your sodium levels balanced during the run. The energy should be minor, if you have the body fat and pace appropriately.

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Old 05-07-2007, 07:59 AM   #30
Matthew McCarty
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I ate regular meals the day before. I ate a regular breakfast the morning before.

But yes -- I ate food while running the Marathon. Of course nobody passed out the food (oranges and bananas) until about mile 22. In any case, almost at every "water" station there were pretzels,powerade, and water. It was a cool morning and I didn't think I would need as much liquids as I did. When I run it next I will drink both powerade and water at every station and take a pretzel or two. Some people eat goo as well during the race -- I don't like goo though.
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