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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 01-31-2014, 11:41 AM   #91
Jason A Smith
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Re: Did Rippetoe get CrossFit right?

Given Crossfit's definition of fitness and the way the go about crowning "The Fittest" I would say unquestionably Rich Froning Jr. is the world's fittest man. He has been 2,1,1,1 in the last four years at the testing ground of fitness. At this point you could say that Sam Briggs is the fittest woman as well. If she does indeed repeat you can invariably say that.

With that said, this is all within the confines of the testing that Crossfit performs. Rich won the Open, Regionals and The Games the last two years. Pretty much untouchable if you consider the vastly different testing involved.

So if Rich does Crossfit, and Rich trains, by virtue Crossfit is training.

Kane Greene and Jonathon Kinnick were so much more eloquent in their statements than I could ever hope to be. Thanks gents for interjecting.

I think we are done with this now.
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Old 01-31-2014, 01:09 PM   #92
Mark Boyle
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Re: Did Rippetoe get CrossFit right?

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Originally Posted by Jason A Smith View Post
So if Rich does Crossfit, and Rich trains, by virtue Crossfit is training.
This is a logical fallacy. Rich may be "training", but since Crossfit is many different things you can't take what Rich does and apply it to Crossfit in its entirety.
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Old 01-31-2014, 01:52 PM   #93
Jason A Smith
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Re: Did Rippetoe get CrossFit right?

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Originally Posted by Mark Boyle View Post
This is a logical fallacy. Rich may be "training", but since Crossfit is many different things you can't take what Rich does and apply it to Crossfit in its entirety.
It was intended as a bit of humour. Sort of like if all camels are mammals, does that make all mammals camels. Anyways.

Crossfit is this:

Constantly varied functional movements performed across broad times and modal domains.

The end result is to be:

Increased work capacity across broad times and modal domains. All the while increasing your competency in the 10 identified areas of fitness. Now, what you use that increased work capacity for is up to you.

Crossfit is training. Training is this according to the dictionary:

the process by which an athlete prepares for competition by exercising, practicing, etc.

Whether the training is good or not depends on your viewpoint and where you land in the specturm of untrained novice to elite athlete. And also to a certain extent where you train and who is providing the coaching.

I participated in competitive individual sports for over a decade at a national level. My "training" when I was a novice level athlete looked a lot different then when I was a senior level athlete.

Frankly I have said and will always say, for the regular person just wanting to be fit and function well in day to day life. Being able to perform at a reasonable level on .com workouts is a pretty major accomplishment.

I think I am done with this one.

Have fun
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Old 01-31-2014, 02:22 PM   #94
Jeremy Schultz
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Re: Did Rippetoe get CrossFit right?

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To me, training primarily focuses on capability while exercise primarily focuses on capacity.

I know people who are doing sets of squats call it training, and they may be if they are consciously attempting to improve form. You do need to practice in order to master, which is also part of training although that will have a benefit in capacity too. But if they are banging out reps in order to get stronger, grow or to lift more (not better) to me it is exercise.

Most sessions in any fitness activity can be pegged on some kind of learning-doing continuum, but will rarely be purely one or the other.
Maybe I'm misconstruing your point here, but are you saying that improving squat form is training, but increasing the amount of weight you can squat is exercise? Again, I have a feeling I'm reading your post wrong, but if I'm not, and your opinion is the same as many Crossfitters, then I can understand Rip's point.
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Old 01-31-2014, 03:53 PM   #95
Larry Bruce
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Re: Did Rippetoe get CrossFit right?

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Originally Posted by Jeremy Schultz View Post
Maybe I'm misconstruing your point here, but are you saying that improving squat form is training, but increasing the amount of weight you can squat is exercise? Again, I have a feeling I'm reading your post wrong, but if I'm not, and your opinion is the same as many Crossfitters, then I can understand Rip's point.
Lift more, not heavier. More reps primarily.

But it's really just words man. If you want to learn a skill you train for it. You practice it. Eventually it becomes unconscious so you can utilize it any time, for competition or for exercise (general fitness & health) purposes. Later you may want to improve it so you train it further and get better at it.

I may train to run 2 miles at speed for a fitness test. That's training and it's exercise. So? Even guys lifting heavy triplets are exercising. Maybe they are training for a competition as part of a program but it's still raising HR, causing muscle contractions, ie - exercise.

Exercise is great, does wonderful things emotionally and physically. It's nothing to look down on. Training is great. My point is that we do them both, everyone does them both - in different degrees at different times.
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Old 01-31-2014, 05:38 PM   #96
Dakota Base
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Re: Did Rippetoe get CrossFit right?

I only read snippets of this thread, since 10pgs of longwinded posts just didn't seem pertinent...

I'm prone to agree, I exercise to be fit, I train FOR something.

That doesn't mean that the workouts have to be structured any differently, other than one is working towards "being fit", and the other is preparing for something in particular.

Does it really matter? Whether a gal gets on the treadmill at the gym because she wants to get in better shape or because she's training for a marathon, she's still running.

I WILL say that I HAVE to be "in training" for something, otherwise I lose my mind. Whether it's a BJJ tournament next month, a 5k road run, a half ironman, etc, I have to have some goal in sight as a motivator. I'm highly motivated to seek out events to enter to give myself an excuse to "train". Because exercise sucks, and because exercise doesn't have a particular "due date" to prepare for, or a particular "ruler" against which I'd be measured, I'm more lax with my dedication. Maybe instead of doing a hard 5mi, I'd go an easy 7, or I'd do weights instead. But if I'm in a training cycle, I have a structured program, so I follow it.
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Old 01-31-2014, 07:31 PM   #97
Jeremy Schultz
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Re: Did Rippetoe get CrossFit right?

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I WILL say that I HAVE to be "in training" for something, otherwise I lose my mind. Whether it's a BJJ tournament next month, a 5k road run, a half ironman, etc, I have to have some goal in sight as a motivator. I'm highly motivated to seek out events to enter to give myself an excuse to "train". Because exercise sucks, and because exercise doesn't have a particular "due date" to prepare for, or a particular "ruler" against which I'd be measured, I'm more lax with my dedication. Maybe instead of doing a hard 5mi, I'd go an easy 7, or I'd do weights instead. But if I'm in a training cycle, I have a structured program, so I follow it.
I agree with you, because I am the same way, except that I competed in PL'ing earlier in life, but not anymore. Is it still "training" if I am just in competition with myself to deadlift more than I did last time? Or is it only "exercise", since I'm not competing?

Obviously, this thread could go on forever, since there isn't a "right" answer...
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Old 01-31-2014, 08:26 PM   #98
Dakota Base
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Re: Did Rippetoe get CrossFit right?

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I agree with you, because I am the same way, except that I competed in PL'ing earlier in life, but not anymore. Is it still "training" if I am just in competition with myself to deadlift more than I did last time? Or is it only "exercise", since I'm not competing?
I have the same issue. I'm not lifting for competition anymore, BUT, it's pretty easy for me to validate lifting as training for something else. For example, I'm a strong believer that bull riders benefit greatly by high load lifting, especially Olympic lifting (fast hips = good bull riding). Fighting/wrestling/grappling also benefits from strength training.

I also want to be able to say that even though I wasn't the fastest guy at an Ironman, at least I had the biggest deadlift, bench, squat, clean, whatever... A small win for me, being the weightlifter out of the endurance fellas....

So yeah, I can validate going for higher deadlift PR's each cycle as a metric for training for OTHER things.
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Old 02-01-2014, 05:36 AM   #99
Steven Wingo
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Re: Did Rippetoe get CrossFit right?

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Originally Posted by Dakota Base View Post

Does it really matter? Whether a gal gets on the treadmill at the gym because she wants to get in better shape or because she's training for a marathon, she's still running.
You are hitting on something I have also pointed out. Whether a workout is "training" or "exercise" really just depends on the mindset of the person doing the activity. Are they there just to have fun? Or do they have some other goal they are working toward through the workout?

The distinction Rippetoe tries to make with "training" versus "exercise" is meaningless in evaluating whether CrossFit is effective. Who cares whether it is labeled exercise or training? Everybody has their own motives for working out. And I would say probably 100% of people working out have at least some goal in mind--such as feeling good or being fit or looking good or losing body fat--even if they don't have a well-defined goal or a competition in mind.

What Rippetoe did not do is put forth any arguments criticizing the effectiveness of CrossFit's training beliefs. He chose to critique CrossFit through some artificial, meaningless distinction he cooked up in his mind. If you want to criticize something, and can't come up with any legitimate arguments, I guess that is a good way to do so as long as your audience members lack critical thinking skills.
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Old 02-01-2014, 09:18 AM   #100
Robert Fabsik
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Re: Did Rippetoe get CrossFit right?

I think it goes beyond mindset. I think Rip is trying to address the need for a plan and intention.

I may have the mindset to be able to deadlift 400lbs. But if I just search the internet for a different WOD each day and hopes it gets my deadlift up. That would just be exercising. You might reach your goal, but most likely by chance.

On the other hand, if I have the goal to deadlift 400lbs and I find/build a program that is going to build me up to that goal by properly increasing the training intensity and volume. That is training.

So I think some CrossFitters are exercising in Rips mind. They do WODs always at high intensity and probably get some results but there isn't more depth than just training hard all the time.

But, I think there are plenty of CrossFitters who train. They purposely plan and use each phase of their plan to build the next. CrossFit Football would be an excellent example.

"Exercising" might get you to where you want. But, ideally, "training" should get you there faster, safer and more efficiently.

I feel Rip has a point, but it doesn't apply across the board to Crossfit. It has to be applied to the individual. My guess is that there would be a higher percentage of CFer's who train compared to globo gym goers and recreational athletes who repeat the same training day in and out. How many Zumba classes are out there? That's clearly exercise.

I think CF has created a lot of benchmarks and goals that people did not strive for until now. Before CF, in the general community, my guess is most people would ask what you bench and in the endurance crowd wonder what your 5K time was or if you did a marathon. When one is exposed to CF, I think there goals broaden and they can see a lot more aspects of fitness they need to improve. I still suck at Oly lifts, but before CF never knew I had that weakness. So now aspects of my training address that when it is in align with my current training goals.
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