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Nutrition Diet, supplements, weightloss, health & longevity

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Old 01-27-2005, 11:01 AM   #1
Payton Steel
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I hope someone has some good info on these things. Most of what I'm asking about are things that I've seen recommended on bodybuilding sites.

1. I drink Designer Whey after a weight intensive workout, but I'm wondering if this is enough on its own. I am reading frequently that the most effective way to get this whey protein to your muscles is with added carbohydrates to induce the insulin spike which forces the protein into your muscles (better/faster?). I see that people are adding dextrose to the drink or drinking it with fruit juice (apple/grape). Is this really necessary, or can I just stick with the Designer Whey on its own? I drink it within 20 minutes of the workout.

2. Aside from the benfits of increased protein intake, is it beneficial to drink Whey Protein after a strictly cardio routine with no weight intensive training? Your muscles are still working, but not the same way they will with weights, so is it pretty neutral?

3. Is the best time to take Creatine at the same time with the Whey Protein after workouts? As a woman who wants to lose 7-10% body fat, be cut up a bit more, but not bulk muscle up too much, will creatine work to my advantage or against me?

4. Is there a true distinct advantage in taking my EFA's right after a workout with the Whey Protein in that it would also usher the EFA's directly into the muscle rather than at any other time during the day?

5. I've noticed a decrease in body fat percentage since taking CLA, but I could be mistaking it for the good effects of upping my weight routine. Is there an advantage/better time to take CLA than any other. I've read 'before eating' and 'during a meal'; does anyone have a preference?

6. Last but not least. I have been working my butt off for 6 weeks at 4 days/week of weight intensive training with a 7 minute cardio burst pre and post workout. I have decreased my calories to 1600/day and am averaging 45% carbs, 35% protein, and 20% fat. I have lost 4% body fat, but NOT A SINGLE POUND. I can see my shape changing, I feel a TON stronger, and I see more muscle definition, but clothes fit the same. I have a feeling anyone here will tell me that I need to add 2-3 more days a week dedicated to just cardio to get the fat off; am I right in that assumption? I am getting tempted to go low carb for 6 weeks to jump start this evolution. It's very frustrating -

Thanks!!
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Old 01-27-2005, 11:13 AM   #2
Brad Hirakawa
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Payton,
I'm not an expert, but I think the when/where/why of taking protein, fat, carb before/after/during workouts is a subject of great debate. I like to keep it simple, and have a 2 block snack after a workout. Few blocks of fats, few blocks of carbs, few blocks of protein. Seems to work well for me, but other folks may be different. My roommate PIGS out after a workout, before he goes to bed, and wakes up in the middle of the night to eat. He's less than 7% body fat, and can't seem to keep it on. Lucky bastard. Another workout partner just has a small 1 block snack after her workouts, and it works well for her. Point is.. different strokes for different folks.

Would not worry too much about the pounds you loose, unless you're trying to fit into a weight class for some sort of competition? Muscle is comparatively heavier than fat, so it could be that you're getting stronger, loosing fat, but not loosing weight.

Sounds like you're working your butt off. I bet in a few months, you'll see/feel the results you are looking for.

Brad
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Old 01-27-2005, 02:02 PM   #3
Larry Lindenman
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Payton, I think we all went through the suppliment for everything stage. Want to lose fat, use the ECA stack, protein powder, etc. Need to gain muscle mass try X-product, blah, blah, blah. Suppliments make up about .01% of the health / training picture. I would only suppliment when I have the following in order, with consistancy:

1. Consistant training 3-6 days a week, focusing on sprinting and large compound lifts, to include the Olympic lifts(I would recommend Crossfit, but any training program is better than nothing).
2. Consistant optiomal nutrition using the following guidelines: "Eat meat and vegetables, nuts and seeds, some fruit, little starch and no sugar. Keep intake to levels that will support exercise but not body fat." Want to make it better, follow the Zone guidelines.
3. Log all workouts and food intake.

Once you are doing this consistantly,we could then add some stuff:

1. Fish oil & flax oil (up to 8g a day).
2. Protein powder as a condiment to add extra protein (and flavor) to oatmeal, yogurt, or cottage cheese, you only need to use a tablespoon at a time.
3. POSSIBLY creatine, after training, in warm liquid. Powder form, nothing special added, 3g with no loading period.

If you are not doing any of this, don't waste your money on suppliments.

NUTRITION is the most important aspect for weight loss (Period). Extra "cardio" sessions above the level of a walk, could convert muscle fibers from FT to ST (not good). LSD sessions catabolize muscle tissue (not good). I would recommend adding low intensity walking, for recovery and additional calorie drainage, at least 5 hours seperated from your weight training session. You should only lose 1-2 lbs of body fat a week, on any sane program. Eat correctly, according to the above guidelines and you will lose body fat. When you get to your target body fat level, add healthy fat to stabilize body fat levels.
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Old 01-27-2005, 02:04 PM   #4
Larry Lindenman
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P.S. you might want to try reading everything avaliable on this web site, including the free CFJ, what is fitness.
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Old 01-28-2005, 01:14 AM   #5
Payton Steel
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Thanks for the info Larry. I agree with you on the supplementation not being the focus, only a benefit after the priorities of a workout and healthy diet are met. I would really hate to waste that great window of opportunity that comes right after a weight intensive workout to push more protein into the muscles. I already follow similar guidelines of the Zone, I record EVERYTHING I eat in a log, and I definitely don't eat crap-food! Like I said, I tend to consistently fall into a 45/35/20 percentage at the end of the day instead of putting 40/30/30 blocks together - although I did try it for a while. What I'm confused about is that it sounds like you are giving the thumbs down to distance running or a lengthened cardio session; am I misunderstanding?
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Old 01-28-2005, 06:04 AM   #6
Brian Hand
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Payton, Larry is right, tons of info here, dig into it.

For one thing it sounds like you're doing great, 4% bodyfat reduction is very good, especially while apparently adding muscle. If you just started taking creatine at the same time, your creatine hydration and muscle gains must be cancelling your fat loss, for now.

Whey or BCAA supplements during / after cardio makes sense to me since any vigorous exercise will deplete BCAAs to some extent.

CLA - seems to me like it looks good on paper but I don't know too many people felt it was effective. Hard to say whether it helps.

I think a lot of what you read about the importance of that post-workout window is hype. The truth is whey protein alone before (or during) a workout is going to do the trick. The whole spiking insulin thing is based more on speculation and selling kool-aid than what you really need post workout. Whey is high in BCAAs and very quickly absorbed, replenishing the BCAAs depleted during exercise is much more important than replenishing the carbs, especially for someone more interested in weight loss than bodybuilding. Also keep in mind insulin has lots of bad effects that are not specualtive or controversial.
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Old 01-28-2005, 09:14 AM   #7
Payton Steel
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Thanks so much for some clarification on this Brian! I haven't started taking creatine yet; I'm still wondering if it would be to my benefit or where it would fit into my goals. It's possible I may add it in after I see another 2-3% body fat loss. I really appreciate all the information. This is what initially drew me into reading about the Crossfit mentality; it's very real, and fits into real life scenarios. I thank you guys for your input!
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Old 01-28-2005, 09:59 AM   #8
Larry Lindenman
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My posts keep getting dropped! Payton, from one very old former gymnast (42) to a some what younger former gymnast: What was your weight like when you were competing, pretty darn good, I bet. How much cardio did you do? Very little! Do a little research on the Tabata protocal and get the Crossfit Journal "What about cardio". This is sort of in the "teach a man to fish" realm. Occasional long bouts of cardio (like today) are fine and test your mental toughness, using cardio to lose weight is a very bad idea. Research and get back to us with your ideas and tell us if we changed your mind. Brian is also right on!
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Old 01-28-2005, 11:05 AM   #9
Lynne Pitts
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Payton,
Others may chime in, but in my experience creatine isn't going to help your weight/fat loss. It'll make you retain water, and get heavier. Maybe stronger too, but it's not a supplement you want for leaning out. If your goals include increased muscle and perhaps some recovery benefits, you might give it a shot.
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Old 01-28-2005, 01:26 PM   #10
Ron Nelson
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Good posts! I'd just add that most anabolic suppliments are there just to add water to the muscles as Lynne said. They will blow you up so you look bigger in the muscle dept., but haven't done a thing to body fat. Listen to Larry on this one. Nutrition is key. Good eating over any "miracle" suppliment every time.
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