CrossFit Discussion Board  

Go Back   CrossFit Discussion Board > CrossFit Forum > Competitions
CrossFit Home Forum Site Rules CrossFit FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Competitions Competitions, contests & challenges

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-25-2011, 07:44 AM   #141
Andrew Bell
Member Andrew Bell is offline
 
Andrew Bell's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Houston  TX
Posts: 4,021
Re: Overall thoughts on Open wods?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Applin View Post
Now, are you claiming that your "fittest" person could do OUTSTANDING at sectionals with its low skill requirements but be DESTROYED during Regionals with the higher skill requirements (DU's, Muscle-ups, HSPU)? Over the next 4 weeks we're going to find out, as I don't think every Regional contender is a CrossFit die hard.
To me, there's a difference between a high level of fitness, and an acquired set of skills (read: "tricks"). Stuff like a hand stand walk, double unders, etc are just that, cool tricks that don't so much test a person's level of fitness as much as test how much they have practiced that particular trick ("skill").

That's where The Games (crossfit) loses it for me, in the very first Open wod, we had double unders, if you're not able to do them, then guess what, you lost. Period. So right off the bat, a skill (trick) knocked out people.

Someone pass the kool aid, obviously I haven't had any in a while and I'm getting thirsty.
__________________
| Log (wfs) |
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2011, 09:26 AM   #142
Chris Walls
Affiliate Chris Walls is offline
 
Chris Walls's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: North Battleford  SK Canada
Posts: 1,722
Re: Overall thoughts on Open wods?

Sure Andrew but you know what you're getting into in a CrossFit contest (more or less). I've never lifted an atlas stone, but say I enter a strong man contest, would I be in my right to complain about being knocked out because I don't know the "trick" to lifting a 200 pound cement ball when I am more than capable of lifting a 200+ lbs bar that high?

You have to assume that anything in the "regular" CrossFit arsenal (ie: anything that has ever seen play on the main page, journal, HQ videos...) is fair game, so you might want to bone up on it if you want to compete.
__________________
Accept no excuses, only results
CrossFit North Battleford
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2011, 10:07 AM   #143
Katherine Derbyshire
Member Katherine Derbyshire is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Seattle  WA
Posts: 7,596
Re: Overall thoughts on Open wods?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Bell View Post
To me, there's a difference between a high level of fitness, and an acquired set of skills (read: "tricks"). Stuff like a hand stand walk, double unders, etc are just that, cool tricks that don't so much test a person's level of fitness as much as test how much they have practiced that particular trick ("skill").
So. Olympic lifts? Test of fitness, or just a trick? How about muscle-ups? Or maybe a scorpion balance? (http://yoga.about.com/od/yogaposes/a/scorpion.htm WFS)

Coordination and balance are aspects of fitness, too. Unfortunately it's very difficult to test either without introducing an element of skill. We can argue about what the best tests might be, but deciding that we shouldn't test them at all would be a fundamental change in the definition of fitness.

Katherine
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2011, 10:08 AM   #144
Dave Traeger
Banned Dave Traeger is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Perth  WA Australia
Posts: 1,810
Re: Overall thoughts on Open wods?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Haxmeier View Post
It's disturbing to me to hear HQ thinking 6 metcons test "all areas of fitness" sufficiently because I don't think metcons are the be all end all.

I think all these items are open for discussion as a community. And I also think that the answers to these questions are VITAL for the community as a whole.
No, I don't think the Open tested all areas of fitness. Nor do I think that was their responsibility. Twas more so a means to thin out the playing field. Theres no one who didn't get through it who would do well at Regionals / Games level.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2011, 11:38 AM   #145
Andrew Bell
Member Andrew Bell is offline
 
Andrew Bell's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Houston  TX
Posts: 4,021
Re: Overall thoughts on Open wods?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Walls View Post
Sure Andrew but you know what you're getting into in a CrossFit contest (more or less). I've never lifted an atlas stone, but say I enter a strong man contest, would I be in my right to complain about being knocked out because I don't know the "trick" to lifting a 200 pound cement ball when I am more than capable of lifting a 200+ lbs bar that high?

You have to assume that anything in the "regular" CrossFit arsenal (ie: anything that has ever seen play on the main page, journal, HQ videos...) is fair game, so you might want to bone up on it if you want to compete.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
So. Olympic lifts? Test of fitness, or just a trick? How about muscle-ups? Or maybe a scorpion balance? (http://yoga.about.com/od/yogaposes/a/scorpion.htm WFS)

Coordination and balance are aspects of fitness, too. Unfortunately it's very difficult to test either without introducing an element of skill. We can argue about what the best tests might be, but deciding that we shouldn't test them at all would be a fundamental change in the definition of fitness.

Katherine
I think this might be where we just call it a day and agree to disagree about who the fittest person on Earth might be.

Don't get me wrong, I totally get what you two are saying here and don't disagree with it for a Crossfit competition, and you got to remember that I will never enter The Open. But at what point does it become "the best Crossfitter on Earth" opposed to "the most fit human being" because of very uncommon tasks to be completed (is there another fitness discipline that does double unders? )? Strongmen competition's don't make the claim to be the fittest so that's kind of a moot point there.

Olympic lifts I think apply to more fitness disciplines though and aren't as much of a trick. Take a loaded barbell and put it over your head. It's a great test of explosiveness and strength more than it is a trick. In other words someone who has NEVER done an olympic lift could take a barbell and put it over their head on the first try.

Atlas Stones, and muscleups are particular skills though I think for those disciplines and don't belong in a CF competition either. Muscle ups you must know the "false grip", it's a trick just in the way you hold the rings.

I'm totally trying that scorpion balance thing Saturday night after a few drinks!!

I was done with this thread a few pages back and got brought back into it, might be time for me to walk away again.
__________________
| Log (wfs) |
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2011, 11:56 AM   #146
Chris Walls
Affiliate Chris Walls is offline
 
Chris Walls's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: North Battleford  SK Canada
Posts: 1,722
Re: Overall thoughts on Open wods?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Bell View Post
I think this might be where we just call it a day and agree to disagree about who the fittest person on Earth might be.

Don't get me wrong, I totally get what you two are saying here and don't disagree with it for a Crossfit competition, and you got to remember that I will never enter The Open. But at what point does it become "the best Crossfitter on Earth" opposed to "the most fit human being" because of very uncommon tasks to be completed (is there another fitness discipline that does double unders? )? Strongmen competition's don't make the claim to be the fittest so that's kind of a moot point there.

Olympic lifts I think apply to more fitness disciplines though and aren't as much of a trick. Take a loaded barbell and put it over your head. It's a great test of explosiveness and strength more than it is a trick. In other words someone who has NEVER done an olympic lift could take a barbell and put it over their head on the first try.

Atlas Stones, and muscleups are particular skills though I think for those disciplines and don't belong in a CF competition either. Muscle ups you must know the "false grip", it's a trick just in the way you hold the rings.

I'm totally trying that scorpion balance thing Saturday night after a few drinks!!

I was done with this thread a few pages back and got brought back into it, might be time for me to walk away again.
I get what you're saying, and you're right. In terms of trying to crown the "all around fittest person" you can't include any specialist skills, but what does that leave you with?

I agree that at a certain point (and we might be there) we are really coming up with the best CrossFitter.
__________________
Accept no excuses, only results
CrossFit North Battleford
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2011, 12:17 PM   #147
Katherine Derbyshire
Member Katherine Derbyshire is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Seattle  WA
Posts: 7,596
Re: Overall thoughts on Open wods?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Walls View Post
I get what you're saying, and you're right. In terms of trying to crown the "all around fittest person" you can't include any specialist skills, but what does that leave you with?
I think it leaves you having to conclude that declaring a World's Fittest Man is just a silly marketing gimmick, actually.

As the endless arguments on this board demonstrate, it really comes down to choice of events, and arbitrary decisions about what "fitness" actually is. Everyone who asks "How can you be the world's fittest if you can't climb a rope/run a decent 5K/lift a decent amount of weight/swim/do X?" have a point, but it's probably not possible to test all the potential X factors in any reasonable competition format.

I think we can all agree that Rob Orlando and Chris Spealler (just to pull two names out of the air) are both extremely fit. But they are also such different body types that any choice of events will almost certainly favor one of them and punish the other. Eliminate that bias by punishing them both, and you're left with a Mikko Salo type as the overall winner. Which is not necessarily a bad thing -- he's extremely fit, too -- but somewhat unsatisfying if you're making the World's Fittest claim.

Katherine
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2011, 01:01 PM   #148
Matt Haxmeier
Member Matt Haxmeier is offline
 
Matt Haxmeier's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Arvada  CO
Posts: 1,619
Re: Overall thoughts on Open wods?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
I think it leaves you having to conclude that declaring a World's Fittest Man is just a silly marketing gimmick, actually.

As the endless arguments on this board demonstrate, it really comes down to choice of events, and arbitrary decisions about what "fitness" actually is. Everyone who asks "How can you be the world's fittest if you can't climb a rope/run a decent 5K/lift a decent amount of weight/swim/do X?" have a point, but it's probably not possible to test all the potential X factors in any reasonable competition format.

I think we can all agree that Rob Orlando and Chris Spealler (just to pull two names out of the air) are both extremely fit. But they are also such different body types that any choice of events will almost certainly favor one of them and punish the other. Eliminate that bias by punishing them both, and you're left with a Mikko Salo type as the overall winner. Which is not necessarily a bad thing -- he's extremely fit, too -- but somewhat unsatisfying if you're making the World's Fittest claim.

Katherine
Yep. All very true.

But it doesn't mean I don't want to see the results of a 100 yard dash.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2011, 01:09 PM   #149
Andrew Bell
Member Andrew Bell is offline
 
Andrew Bell's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Houston  TX
Posts: 4,021
Re: Overall thoughts on Open wods?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Walls View Post
I get what you're saying, and you're right. In terms of trying to crown the "all around fittest person" you can't include any specialist skills, but what does that leave you with?

I agree that at a certain point (and we might be there) we are really coming up with the best CrossFitter.
I think you need to start by testing the 3 different energy systems (phosphagen, glycolytic, and oxidative) and a combination there of.

Next you need to look at how you can test each of these, and how to combine some to test ALL of them:
1. Cardio respiratory endurance
2. Muscular endurance
3. Strength
4. Flexibility
5. Power
6. Speed
7. Coordination
8. Accuracy
9. Agility
10. Balance (ok, maybe handstand walking is back in. )

I think THESE are the things you need to look at when designing "the worlds most fittest person", and not just the best crossfitter this year. This can be done without the specialized things done in cf as we talked about above. I think things like the sandbag/wheel barrow wod last year are great tests when stepping outside the normal "deadlifts, pushups, etc" movements.
__________________
| Log (wfs) |
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2011, 01:11 PM   #150
Andrew Bell
Member Andrew Bell is offline
 
Andrew Bell's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Houston  TX
Posts: 4,021
Re: Overall thoughts on Open wods?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
I think it leaves you having to conclude that declaring a World's Fittest Man is just a silly marketing gimmick, actually.

As the endless arguments on this board demonstrate, it really comes down to choice of events, and arbitrary decisions about what "fitness" actually is. Everyone who asks "How can you be the world's fittest if you can't climb a rope/run a decent 5K/lift a decent amount of weight/swim/do X?" have a point, but it's probably not possible to test all the potential X factors in any reasonable competition format.

I think we can all agree that Rob Orlando and Chris Spealler (just to pull two names out of the air) are both extremely fit. But they are also such different body types that any choice of events will almost certainly favor one of them and punish the other. Eliminate that bias by punishing them both, and you're left with a Mikko Salo type as the overall winner. Which is not necessarily a bad thing -- he's extremely fit, too -- but somewhat unsatisfying if you're making the World's Fittest claim.

Katherine
VERY well put Katherine!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Haxmeier View Post
Yep. All very true.

But it doesn't mean I don't want to see the results of a 100 yard dash.
Me too!!!
__________________
| Log (wfs) |
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Looking for thoughts Nolan Womack Fitness 7 08-21-2010 03:29 PM
just a few thoughts Sean Winkle Community 21 04-09-2009 05:38 PM
Thoughts... Chris Rebmann Nutrition 40 06-13-2008 09:16 AM
For those with "second thoughts" Jason Testimonials 6 10-11-2002 02:20 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
CrossFit is a registered trademark of CrossFit Inc.