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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 02-13-2015, 06:04 PM   #1
Hakan Yilmazkaya
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Do you really need a perfect oly lifting form ?

I am so confused with the oly lifting thing. I'm aware that oly lifting is hard to learn and master, also you just can't snatch 2x your bw without a perfect technique. But how much of a perfect technique you would need with doing a grace ? Look at Dan Bailey doing a Grace, this is for sure not a perfect way of doing cleans;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhFe5cqP1mI

He is just getting a good pull from the ground and get under the bar, that's it. To talk about myself, i can clean or snatch way more when i forget about the perfect technique and just concentrate on getting a strong pull from the ground, get a good vertical jump and get under the bar (ofc take care about not getting injured). So sometimes i think why do i need to spend my months and get crazy about mastering something if i won't need the perfect technique to get the bar up on my head. Would be very glad to hear your opinions about that.
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Old 02-13-2015, 07:05 PM   #2
Neil Kanterman
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Re: Do you really need a perfect oly lifting form ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hakan Yilmazkaya View Post
I am so confused with the oly lifting thing. I'm aware that oly lifting is hard to learn and master, also you just can't snatch 2x your bw without a perfect technique. But how much of a perfect technique you would need with doing a grace ? Look at Dan Bailey doing a Grace, this is for sure not a perfect way of doing cleans;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhFe5cqP1mI

He is just getting a good pull from the ground and get under the bar, that's it. To talk about myself, i can clean or snatch way more when i forget about the perfect technique and just concentrate on getting a strong pull from the ground, get a good vertical jump and get under the bar (ofc take care about not getting injured). So sometimes i think why do i need to spend my months and get crazy about mastering something if i won't need the perfect technique to get the bar up on my head. Would be very glad to hear your opinions about that.
If your olympic lifting goals are to simply be able to do Grace or Isabel then no, of course you don't need perfect or even barely efficient form.

However many in CrossFit have more difficult to achieve goals, and quite a few have chosen to compete in the sport of olympic lifting. For these people, some time spent improving your efficiency in the lifts is practically mandatory.
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Old 02-13-2015, 09:17 PM   #3
Blair Robert Lowe
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Re: Do you really need a perfect oly lifting form ?

1) That's "Grace" that is allowed to just Power Clean. It's more of a GTO. Grace is supposed to be Squat Clean and overhead. So if a squat was recovered yet you were crappy at a clean to a squat, you'd be buggered even if you could PC #300.

2) #135 is so light that Dan Bailey can just breeze through it. It's roughly 40-45% of his CJ. My guess is Dan can nearly PC about twice that.

It all depends on your goals. If it's just to do CF for fitness, you probably don't need to try run yourself into the ground pushing for a 1.5xbw Sn and 2xbw CJ.

If your goals include competing in CF at the regional level, you'll need to be good at the lifts. Hell, if you want to be competitive at the local level, it would help to be good at the lifts. If you just want to compete at the local level scaled or RX for fun, nah doesn't really matter. Then again, kinda sucks to miss reps.
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Old 02-14-2015, 07:48 AM   #4
Shawn M Wilson
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Re: Do you really need a perfect oly lifting form ?

In many crossfit workouts we toss form out the window because it is a race.

We use the strength that we have and perform a "quicker" rep that lacks often a true full movement, while managing to fulfill the "required" movement.

If grace is simply GTO then it doesn't matter how you get it there. Having watched a guy throw grace down in 1:06 because 135lbs is chump change, it was simply picking up straight to full extension and racing it back down and up.

I think knowing good form is important for many reasons.

In the snatch ladder from the open you will see the importance of it because when we are tired and fatigued, good form can accomplish a lift where bad form results in no reps and potential injuries.

I would say we need to learn proper form and use it when possible, but remember when a competition takes place form often brakes down
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Old 02-14-2015, 08:11 AM   #5
Eric R Cohen
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Re: Do you really need a perfect oly lifting form ?

It's about efficiency towards a goal, so you need both. To do grace, you need less "perfect form" for the sake of speed. To find your 1 rep max and work towards improving it, you need to work on form and get as close to "perfect" as you can.

Working on skills is an important part of CF, as much as just bettering your times...
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Old 02-15-2015, 10:01 AM   #6
Hakan Yilmazkaya
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Re: Do you really need a perfect oly lifting form ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blair Robert Lowe View Post
1) That's "Grace" that is allowed to just Power Clean. It's more of a GTO. Grace is supposed to be Squat Clean and overhead. So if a squat was recovered yet you were crappy at a clean to a squat, you'd be buggered even if you could PC #300.

2) #135 is so light that Dan Bailey can just breeze through it. It's roughly 40-45% of his CJ. My guess is Dan can nearly PC about twice that.

It all depends on your goals. If it's just to do CF for fitness, you probably don't need to try run yourself into the ground pushing for a 1.5xbw Sn and 2xbw CJ.

If your goals include competing in CF at the regional level, you'll need to be good at the lifts. Hell, if you want to be competitive at the local level, it would help to be good at the lifts. If you just want to compete at the local level scaled or RX for fun, nah doesn't really matter. Then again, kinda sucks to miss reps.
Thanks for all the replies, appreciated a lot.

What if you can C&J 2x your bw without a good technique ? Do you think you still need to improve your oly lifting techniques or just concentrate on something else that you are not efficient with ?
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Old 02-15-2015, 10:06 AM   #7
Mark E. Wallace
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Re: Do you really need a perfect oly lifting form ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hakan Yilmazkaya View Post
What if you can C&J 2x your bw without a good technique ? Do you think you still need to improve your oly lifting techniques or just concentrate on something else that you are not efficient with ?
Depends on your goals. If you want to C&J more than that but are struggling to do so, then improving your technique is something that you should look at.

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Old 02-15-2015, 11:11 AM   #8
Struan Potter
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Re: Do you really need a perfect oly lifting form ?

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Originally Posted by Hakan Yilmazkaya View Post
Thanks for all the replies, appreciated a lot.

What if you can C&J 2x your bw without a good technique ? Do you think you still need to improve your oly lifting techniques or just concentrate on something else that you are not efficient with ?
Bit of a blanket statement, but you will not be able to C&J 2xBW without good fundamentals in technique.

For the inevitable questions about the above, all good lifters have differences in technique, but they all have the fundamentals (straight back, keeping the bar close to the body, upright torso in the squat, weight distribution, the tempo of the lift) down to a tee.
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Old 02-15-2015, 06:51 PM   #9
Neil Kanterman
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Re: Do you really need a perfect oly lifting form ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hakan Yilmazkaya View Post
Thanks for all the replies, appreciated a lot.

What if you can C&J 2x your bw without a good technique ? Do you think you still need to improve your oly lifting techniques or just concentrate on something else that you are not efficient with ?
1. You can't

2. What do you tell a lifter that just C&J'd 2x BW with tons of technical flaws? "Good job!"
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Old 02-18-2015, 10:57 AM   #10
Glenn Plomchok
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Re: Do you really need a perfect oly lifting form ?

My perspective...and this is coming from someone who had "less than good" form but strength and a good engine.

I could power clean more than I could squat clean. I could move loads fast when I needed to. I made a bad low back worse and blew out a disc.

Took 15 months to fully rehab. I can now back squat my old PR, have surpassed my Front squat PR by nearly 40 pounds, beat my old snatch number, can squat clean (new PR at 235) more than power clean, legitimately lock out my split jerks...have beaten my old OHS numbers by a ton. BW 175.

On top of all that new efficiency, I move much better in wods and have beaten almost all of my old PR's on benchmark wods (including Grace where I went from 3:08 to 2:46 with a lesser power clean max).

In short, I would work on efficiency and technique in Olympic lifts (and all movements...) Strength work yes...squats, deads, etc...put in the time to get stronger, put in the time to be efficient.
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