CrossFit Discussion Board  

Go Back   CrossFit Discussion Board > CrossFit Forum > Fitness
CrossFit Home Forum Site Rules CrossFit FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-02-2005, 12:15 AM   #1
Josh Briggs
Member Josh Briggs is offline
 
Josh Briggs's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Canmore  AB
Posts: 56
Scott & Lindsay’s articles in the most recent Crossfit journal bring up two interesting & contrasting points:
Lindsay is essentially discussing the need to commit to a consistent training regime through travel, environment, and laziness. Whereas Scott is pushing the need to not push ourselves excessively... that sometimes less is more.

Interesting question... especially for those of us driven to exceptional / excessive physical performance. Where to find that optimal balance??

Recently I underwent a transition from regular training and performance to sickness. Unlike Scott, I don’t believe that training to excess was to blame. However, I have a theory that a combination of the similar hormonal / neuro-chemical demands of intense athletic training (cross fitting) & risk activities (fight or flight response) combined to fry my system.

See what you think... I’m totally open to the suggestion that I’m just a wimp, or that this is just one of those random universe things.

I was introduced to crossfit last fall, and dabbled through the fall and winter, until throwing myself in full- bore in February... often doing two workouts in a day...

1) January... heavy ski touring most days for the last 3 weeks of the month.
2) February... work (involving highly altered sleep schedules, late nights, 24 hr days, long drives, etc) and heavy cross- fitting, often with two workout’s in one day. Commonly finding myself sore for days. Scott had given me his warnings about making him self sick... but I ignored him figuring that he was just short, and couldn’t cut it.
3) Late Feb – Early March... working nights / sleeping days, callisthenic x-fit workouts...
4) Early March – Late March... Paragliding trip to Brazil... flying every day, cross fitting every night. Prescribed workouts, done with competitive group for maximum intensity.
5) Late March – Early May... Working nights / Sleeping days, callisthenic x- fit workouts combined with uphill running for max intensity in training for a comp, also often altering sleep schedule to fit in ski touring & chute skiing days in between nights of work. Somewhere in here, I do the “Three bars of death workout” with 185lbs deadlift (55 reps of said exercise, + bench and cleans @ lower weights... for the uninitiated)... lower back is f'd for at least a month after...
6) Early May... Starting to feel sick at work, but hill climbing ability & strength seems unaffected, so I ignore it. Some existential angst... mortality questions... fear... after the death of a friend.
7) Leave on 7 day ski trip to interior BC... feeling sick, but put in 6 – 10 hour days everyday, low intensity, but often involving real “pay attention” components.
8) Come home, rest for 3 days, feel better.
9) Drive to SLC Utah. Run in Montana en route, then x-fit in twin falls the next day. Going through some mortality issues to do with BASE jumping... no BASE this trip, but spend some time angst-ing about it. Paragliding in SLC, also run through student levels of skydiving... 8 13,000ft jumps in 48 hours. Run one of the canyons for 2hrs, drive home. X-fit workout when I get home... starting to feel a little “off” again, but agree to for a 2500ft hill run for time the next morning... complete run in good time, & feel “fit” but not “good”... go to work nights & CRASH. Sleeping 18hrs a day for 3 or 4 days.

The working nights thing I'm sure has an effect here... as it obviously f's with my system... I'm just not sure what that effect is...

So what’s my point?

Well, until now, I had always worked on the basis that as long as there was variability in my activity, it would naturally allow segments of my systems to recover as other systems were worked. IE. Long-Slow-Distance days such as ski touring or hiking the paraglider, allow the system to recover from high intensity, high loads activities such as x-fit... and vice- versa.

I still think that this might be true... but NOT WHEN THE LSD DAYS INVOVE ACTIVITES STESSING THE ADREANALS.

Crossfit= getting chased by the tiger.
Paragliding / skydiving / skiing or climbing where you might die / BASE = being forced to sit next to the tiger.

So, although the actual physical demands of the activities may be very different, the hormonal / neuro chemical response is similar, and as such you can’t “rest” from one by doing the other.

I’d like to hear what everyone thinks about this... especially from those who have a better grasp of the bio- chemistry involved than I do, and from those who work in high stress environments like the police or military.

Cheers
Josh Briggs
Canmore, AB, CAN
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2005, 05:47 AM   #2
Larry Lindenman
Affiliate Larry Lindenman is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chicago  Illinois
Posts: 2,769
Yesterday I was inspired to write an article about unloading weeks for the CFJ (I've been advocating it for years). It's in the works, but the basis is 3 weeks of hard training followed by a 50% volume, unloading week. What my research is finding is we could handle about 3-4 weeks of concentrated loading, then training starts to deteriorate. A 50% volume / testing week, promotes supercompensation. Kind of like draining the battery and then charging it past its previous capacity. I think you need to build rest weeks into your training to reap your trainings full rewards. More to come.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2005, 06:17 AM   #3
Brian Hand
Departed Brian Hand is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 1970
 
Posts: 633
Josh, I think you're right that adrenal exhaustion is common to all types of stressors, to varying degrees. Cortisone figures in too. Even without the emotional excitement, a long run is still a stressor and it eats into your work capacity. Work capacity is finite (although in your case it looks like just barely). Without looking into the "black box" too much it is easy to see that all stressors have some common effects (one of the major themes behind Seyle's General Adaptation Syndrome). To paraphrase Dan John, the body and mind are one piece.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2005, 06:30 AM   #4
Jason Simpkins
Departed Jason Simpkins is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 1970
 
Posts: 221
Josh,

excessive training combined with everyday stress and/or poor nutrition can eventually lead to a condition known as non-addison's hypoadrenia or simply, adrenal fatigue.

I know of this condition quite well, as I have suffered from it due to the above mentioned factors and believe me, it is no picnic. Training balls to the wall is great for athletic improvement, but one must be careful to account for all activity performed both in and outside of the gym.

Rest is as vital as training. You will only get stronger in-between workouts. Check out the link below for more info:

http://www.drlam.com/A3R_brief_in_do...al_fatigue.cfm
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2005, 06:53 AM   #5
Derek Lane
Member Derek Lane is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Bellevue  Wa
Posts: 125
what's the quote?
something like, "it's not over-training, it's under-recovering?"
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2005, 07:17 AM   #6
James R. Climer
Member James R. Climer is offline
 
James R. Climer's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Paso Robles  California
Posts: 1,148
I have read elsewhere the body adapts it's capacity to perform work in response to overload stimulus so that the next time the work is performed, the body can better handle it, yet there is no similar adaptation response in bodily recovery systems. In other words, as the body increases it's ability to perform a task, it never appreciably increases its recovery rate.

What is the recovery experience here @ CF?
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2005, 07:30 AM   #7
Graham Hayes
Member Graham Hayes is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Sidmouth  Devon
Posts: 880
Maybe there is some semantic misunderstanding here but I would say my ability to recover has increased dramatically since starting the Zone. I can understand that muscle may have a fixed time to buid back but energy wise I think you can build to a point where recovery is very quick.

Josh, I don't know the reasons why you burned other than too much work, but I would listen to Scott if I were you. I believe you can build your work capacity to the point where what you have been doing is sustainable, and later easily sustainable but jumping into the deep end won't get you there.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2005, 07:46 AM   #8
bill fox
Departed bill fox is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 1970
 
Posts: 587
Larry have you seen this, Jack Reapes article on the back off week. Jack's a champion PLer and smart guy.

You need to cut and paste the link:

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do;jsessionid=7ED10E4455C6B01F08488AD4E95A8201.hydra ?id=546953
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2005, 08:55 AM   #9
Josh Briggs
Member Josh Briggs is offline
 
Josh Briggs's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Canmore  AB
Posts: 56
Scott sent me this to post, from his enforced resting in the deserts of Oman...

Scott Semple writes:

"WORK SMARTER, NOT HARDER

I know absolutely zero about bio-chemistry or anything else related to the fundamental changes that happen with high intensity training. What I do know is that I committed to Crossfit with an all-too-common enthusiasm and I blew up and ****ed away months of potential training due to subsequent sickness.

Whether the recovery required is hormonally based or not, it is required, and what consitutes sufficient recovery is not understood by most athletes. There's no such thing as over-training -- just under-recovery."

In my CFJ article, I wrote, "...despite me passing on the caution that I received, I see friends new to Crossfit doing the same thing." Guess who I was talking about and guess what happened to him?

As my piece describes, I've about-faced from my original approach to Crossfit and what I do now is very much in line with Larry's post about 3-4 weeks followed by a week of 50% capacity. Detailed notes on every workout and a strict go-or-no-go determined by morning HR are also essential components. As a result, I'm not training as hard, but I'm training 100 times as smart. Best of all, with detailed notes and adequate recovery, I can see concrete gains EVERY workout."

If I remember right, the morning HR go / no-go thing is advocated by a long-time mtn runner / x-country skier friend of ours.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2005, 11:18 AM   #10
Larry Lindenman
Affiliate Larry Lindenman is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chicago  Illinois
Posts: 2,769
Bill, I saw the article and posted the link about 6 months ago (BBF: Before Bill Fox). It was weird reading it, because that is what I had been advocating for at least a year...almost to the tee: 50% volume weeks every month.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Growth Hormone Research Charlie Reid Fitness 5 05-29-2006 07:51 PM
Hormone replacement mike caudill Nutrition 5 04-19-2006 08:17 PM
Two workouts/day and hormone response John Seiler Fitness 13 04-13-2006 06:28 PM
Adequate blocks for competition sports? Marina Volpicelli Nutrition 14 03-15-2005 10:42 AM
Hormone Replacement Anonymous Nutrition 1 11-28-2003 12:04 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:55 AM.


CrossFit is a registered trademark of CrossFit Inc.