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Old 07-13-2009, 01:57 PM   #31
Ed Haywood
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Re: Games Scoring

Ron, that's a great attitude and I'm glad you take the criticism in the spirit in which it is intended.

The scoring system for Decathlon has been evolving for over 100 years (wfs). No surprise that we haven't gotten it right on the first couple of attempts. We'll get there. But frank and honest debate is essential to that process.
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Old 07-13-2009, 02:32 PM   #32
Steven Matheson
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Re: Games Scoring

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I suspect that HQ knew exactly what they were doing.
Maybe if an official statement were made.....
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Old 07-13-2009, 02:33 PM   #33
Joshua Refenes
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Re: Games Scoring

Just spitballin'...

Would taking the best and worst score from a WOD (i.e. max weight, fastest time, most rounds, etc.), and then distributing the points based on finish in regards to those two endpoints solve the problem?

I would think this is similar to the decathlon scoring (points based on a 'world class' performance), but since there are no accepted "standards" for newly created WODs, this would provide you with an instant benchmark on which the scoring is based.

That way, regardless of the size of the field, you're being scored on your finish relative to the fastest/slowest time.

I could see this being a more fair alternative to what happened in WOD 2, with the deadlifts. Those who came in 2nd were only what, 10-20 lbs off the max weight, but were punished with 15 more points than those that tied for first. Under this proposal, the 2nd place finishers would have ended up with only slightly more points than those who finished first.
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Last edited by Joshua Refenes : 07-13-2009 at 02:36 PM.
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Old 07-13-2009, 03:42 PM   #34
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: Games Scoring

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Originally Posted by Joshua Refenes View Post
I could see this being a more fair alternative to what happened in WOD 2, with the deadlifts. Those who came in 2nd were only what, 10-20 lbs off the max weight, but were punished with 15 more points than those that tied for first. Under this proposal, the 2nd place finishers would have ended up with only slightly more points than those who finished first.
Since one of the second place deadlift people won the games, clearly his punishment wasn't too severe...

Still, as others have pointed out, a more standard way to allocate points in case of ties would be to sum the points for the tied positions (1-16) and divide them equally among the competitors. Alternatively, you could break ties by allowing one last lift at a weight of the competitor's choice.

Katherine
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Old 07-13-2009, 04:08 PM   #35
Tom Woodward
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Re: Games Scoring

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Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
Since one of the second place deadlift people won the games, clearly his punishment wasn't too severe...
It was pretty wild. Mikko got that last rep about halfway up and I remember thinking just after the event that had he lifted it, he would have 16 fewer points and wondering if that would cost him the title. In the end, he would have won by a landslide had he pulled the 505 all the way.
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Old 07-13-2009, 04:08 PM   #36
Dimitri Dziabenko
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Re: Games Scoring

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Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
Since one of the second place deadlift people won the games, clearly his punishment wasn't too severe...

Still, as others have pointed out, a more standard way to allocate points in case of ties would be to sum the points for the tied positions (1-16) and divide them equally among the competitors. Alternatively, you could break ties by allowing one last lift at a weight of the competitor's choice.

Katherine
Or if choosing to give a workout that can be potentially "won," push it into the usual madness by either letting the weights go to 605 (why not?) or making the jumps at 5lb and still probably go higher than they did (they stopped at 85% max. of some of the competitors).
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Old 07-13-2009, 04:19 PM   #37
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: Games Scoring

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Originally Posted by Dimitri Dziabenko View Post
Or if choosing to give a workout that can be potentially "won," push it into the usual madness by either letting the weights go to 605 (why not?) or making the jumps at 5lb and still probably go higher than they did (they stopped at 85% max. of some of the competitors).
On the other hand, the way it was structured had the effect of devaluing maximum strength, effectively saying that 505 was "strong enough" for all Crossfit-related purposes. That's a valid position to take if you're defining fitness as Crossfit does.

Katherine
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Old 07-13-2009, 05:11 PM   #38
Shane Skowron
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Re: Games Scoring

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Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
On the other hand, the way it was structured had the effect of devaluing maximum strength, effectively saying that 505 was "strong enough" for all Crossfit-related purposes. That's a valid position to take if you're defining fitness as Crossfit does.

Katherine
This is what I was thinking-- that 505 is "good enough" for Crossfit. But the pre-games commentary suggested the reason it only went to 505 was because nobody was going to be able to do it. And Tony and Dave seemed absolutely certain of that. Why were they so certain? One guy had a PR that was 101# more than that. Even with a long run and 19 deadlifts before that, is it really any surprise that he could deadlift 101# less than his max in an adrenaline-fueled environment?

I wonder if not having deadlift negatives made a huge difference. I wasn't there, but from the videos it looked like everybody dropped after lockout to save some energy (as is logical).
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Old 07-13-2009, 05:46 PM   #39
Dimitri Dziabenko
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Re: Games Scoring

I'm sorry, I don't buy the "strong enough" argument. I think they just underestimated the athletes. They didn't have a "fast enough" category for the run, ie. if you run it in under 45min, you are fast enough for Crossfit purposes, so I don't think that was the standard for the deadlift either.
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Old 07-13-2009, 06:11 PM   #40
Lincoln Brigham
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Re: Games Scoring

I thought the organizers did a great job with the events. I think in hindsight they would have done the deadlifts a little differently, but personally I thought the concept of the deadlift event was one of the best event ideas. It's simply unfortunate that so many competitors tied for that event. A perfect event would have no ties.

I would have preferred that at least one event run over an hour. Numerous other sports and competition events run over longer than one hour - some soccer matches take as long as 2 hours on the clock PLUS penalty kicks! Not to mention military competitions, marathons, bike races, etc. The 45 minute trail run was a great event that exposed holes in the fitness of many competitors. That is exactly what events in the Games should do - expose holes in fitness. It was so good I think the run should have been doubled up.

I loved the sledge hammer event; brilliant idea and execution. Accuracy and Power. I would have ditched the 500 meter rows on the front and the back as there was too much emphasis on metcon events already IMHO. I would have made the athletes hammer in three stakes.

I liked the simpler format of the Games scoring vs. decathlon scoring. Nobody understands decathlon scoring.

In short, I would have preferred more variety of fitness tests instead of so much emphasis on sub-10 minute metcons. I don't think the Games needs more than one or two metcon events to figure out who are the metcon monsters. I think more variety would have made the swings in placement more dramatic and exciting while at the same time exposing more holes in athlete's fitness.

Overall I'd give the scoring for this event an "A-". Job well done.
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