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Exercises Movements, technique & proper execution

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Old 07-09-2010, 10:27 AM   #21
John Stone
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Re: What is the functionality of kipping

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Originally Posted by Jamie J. Skibicki View Post
What are you feelings on push presses?
It's a non-body-weight movement, and thus not relevant to this discussion (apple-to-apple and all that).
 
Old 07-09-2010, 10:29 AM   #22
Mauricio Leal
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Re: What is the functionality of kipping

No offense but it doesn't seem like you're reading all the replies.. kipping, especially in the context of a metcon, is about POWER output first and foremost. Until you can explain away that one, it's not even worth going into the other details.
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Old 07-09-2010, 10:29 AM   #23
Jamie J. Skibicki
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Re: What is the functionality of kipping

How does that matter?

I can weight both my kipping and strict pull ups.
 
Old 07-09-2010, 10:30 AM   #24
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Re: What is the functionality of kipping

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1) It is used to mask weakness. In the Marine Corps people who couldn't do 15 strict pullups could do (literally) 100 kipping pullups.

2) If the training program tells everyone that it is OK to do kips instead of strict pullups in their everyday training, it is the programs fault.

3) Strict was shown to have more benefits, as detailed earlier.

4) I believe you. The swinging form / agility / etc needed for MUs and the like make kips a good training tool. My question still stands -- why is it allowed for non-training purposes?
1) Agree that individuals can use it for that. Sad but true, because it can (should) be used for a newbie to get reps in and develop some strength and good shoulder girdle elasticity...At the point you are describing it is not the best way to build fitness and strength.

2) CF WODs routinely prescribe L-pull-ups (non-kipping) and weighted pull-ups (can only be kipped to a certain weight safely). Again CF as prescribed has always advocated working your weakness...

3) Who cares which has MORE benefits...kipping pull-ups have different benefits you CANNOT get from strict pull-ups...

4) These listed are the primary benefits you can't get from strict. Taking it to a MU is even more detrimental in my opinion as a MU is much more of a strength movement than a pull-up IMO. so if I were you I'd be much more upset about kipping MU than kipping PU.
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Old 07-09-2010, 10:37 AM   #25
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Re: What is the functionality of kipping

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1) Agree that individuals can use it for that. Sad but true, because it can (should) be used for a newbie to get reps in and develop some strength and good shoulder girdle elasticity...At the point you are describing it is not the best way to build fitness and strength.

2) CF WODs routinely prescribe L-pull-ups (non-kipping) and weighted pull-ups (can only be kipped to a certain weight safely). Again CF as prescribed has always advocated working your weakness...

3) Who cares which has MORE benefits...kipping pull-ups have different benefits you CANNOT get from strict pull-ups...

4) These listed are the primary benefits you can't get from strict. Taking it to a MU is even more detrimental in my opinion as a MU is much more of a strength movement than a pull-up IMO. so if I were you I'd be much more upset about kipping MU than kipping PU.
4) With no personal experience on doing reps of strict MUs I'm just basing that off of what others posted here.

Again, I have no problem with kipping in general. I think it's fine when used like band assistance and jumping pullups, et cetera -- to help build strength. But watching the competition videos et cetera, I am seeing everyone using them in place of PU's just to get higher scores / faster times, and that is the definition of masking weakness.

Hence the question about it.

Last edited by John Stone : 07-09-2010 at 10:43 AM.
 
Old 07-09-2010, 10:38 AM   #26
Jamie J. Skibicki
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Re: What is the functionality of kipping

"The power idea was already debunked"

Momentary or total power?
 
Old 07-09-2010, 10:47 AM   #27
Mauricio Leal
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Re: What is the functionality of kipping

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The power idea was already debunked, cardio benefits have been debunked, et cetera.
Umm, no. Citation needed. Everyone's butterflying now not because "it's easier," but because it has a faster rep cycle and allows you to go faster and finish the whole workout faster and thus for the same number of reps and loads produce higher average power. Instantaneous power who knows, but moreover who cares, "the only way to win is to do more work faster."
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Old 07-09-2010, 11:00 AM   #28
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Re: What is the functionality of kipping

" but moreover who cares"

Are you seriosuly asking who cares about instantaneous power generation? Ahh how about just about every athlete?
 
Old 07-09-2010, 11:00 AM   #29
Mauricio Leal
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Re: What is the functionality of kipping

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4) With no personal experience on doing reps of strict MUs I'm just basing that off of what others posted here.

Again, I have no problem with kipping in general. I think it's fine when used like band assistance and jumping pullups, et cetera -- to help build strength. But watching the competition videos et cetera, I am seeing everyone using them in place of PU's just to get higher scores / faster times, and that is the definition of masking weakness.

Hence the question about it.
Also, CrossFit, especially the competitive side, is not about the strong and the weak, it's about the fit and the unfit. Fitness is work capacity across broad time and modal domains, aka who can, quite literally, produce the most power in the broadest range of time domains and tasks. I just want to be clear that strength ~= fitness, because I often see those two things conflated here.
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Old 07-09-2010, 11:01 AM   #30
Mauricio Leal
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Re: What is the functionality of kipping

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" but moreover who cares"

Are you seriosuly asking who cares about instantaneous power generation? Ahh how about just about every athlete?
Of course not in general. But with respect to pull-ups and different kipping styles, yes.
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