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Old 03-31-2008, 12:44 PM   #121
Andy Shirley
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Re: Children's vaccinations

Robert,
I type too slow.
 
Old 03-31-2008, 01:04 PM   #122
George Mounce
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Re: Children's vaccinations

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt DeMinico View Post
The question is, which one of these vaccines are NECESSARY? Seriously. They give kids a stinkin' chicken pox vaccine nowadays. Give me a break. None of these diseases are life threatening, and if they are, their incidence rate is so incredibly low that the only cases of them known to exist lately have been due to the vaccine themself (aka not in "non-vaccinated children")

The other question you may want to ask yourself is, why is my child being injected with a vaccine made from a murdered unborn child (aka an aborted "fetus")? http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...=Google+Search

And before we even think of going down the political bandwagon, don't give me crap for this, it's the stinkin' truth, and nobody denies it.
Chicken Pox can be very serious for adults. So you get it while a kid...or you can stop from even getting it. Think outside the box.
 
Old 03-31-2008, 05:55 PM   #123
Dale Kimberlin
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Re: Children's vaccinations

(wfs)
http://www.drcarley.com/dr_carley_cr...m_decision.htm

Dr Carly talks about how the powers that be want the focus to be on the mercury as it is not what causes Autism and therefore implies vaccines are "safe".
Dr. Carley has stated for years that Autism was not caused by Mercury.

Also an interesting point about oral vaccines is made.

Lastly a non-fatal case of subacute sclerosing panencephalitis caused by demyelination following vaccine induced encephalitis, and that the name of the condition was changed to autism to hide this self evident fact.

Drcarley.com (WFS) has much perspective.
 
Old 03-31-2008, 06:41 PM   #124
Andy Shirley
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Re: Children's vaccinations

Dr Carly has also had a fair amount of legal issues, resulting in the suspension of her license to practice medicine.
Quote:
The BPMC decision was based on proceedings that included ten days of hearings held between July 2002 and January 2003. The key testimony appears to be that of Zev Labins, a board-certified psychiatrist who interviewed Carley three times and concluded that she was delusional. As the BPMC documents note:

Dr. Labins found the Respondent to have a delusional disorder with the presence of narcissistic and borderline personality traits. He testified that ~he has delusions of persecution and grandiosity and that she believes that she is being persecuted because she is special. . . .

Dr. Labins also testified that the Respondent believes that her husband sodomized their son as part of a satanic ritual because she does not vaccinate and because she cures children with autism. Dr. Labins stated that the Respondent believes that her husband was fulfilling the government's role in performing anal penetration on their child and that this penetration sends a surge of energy to the child's brain resulting in the compartmentalization of the brain. Dr. Labins also stated that the Respondent believes that the government is interested in pursuing all persons who are opposed to vaccinating children, which is part of a global government plot in collusion with the drug industry. Finally, Dr. Labins testified that the Respondent was unable to consider any other basis for what she alleged happened to her child. . . .

A delusional disorder occurs when someone has a fixed false belief without any other apparent symptoms that would otherwise be present in other illnesses, and, characteristically, the person's behavior does not appear odd or bizarre in any way other than in those behaviors that are derivative of the delusion. . . .

The Respondent has both delusions of persecution and delusions of grandiosity, i.e., the Respondent believes that she is being persecuted because she has a special ability to heal autism, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, cancer and other autoimmune disorders. . . .

The Respondent refers to herself as "Ghandi with breasts" as well as having been stripped to the bone and being able to save the world. The Respondent has a sense of knowing something that other people do not know. There is a messianic theme to her delusional system. . . . The Respondent has even compared herself to Joan of Arc. . . .

The Respondent believes that the Nassau County Department of Social Services, the Office of Professional Medical Conduct ["OPMC"], the judiciary, the pharmaceutical industry, and the legislature, are all colluding to persecute her as a result of her practice of alternative medicine. [1]

The BPMC's Hearing Committee concluded:

The Respondent's delusions interfere with her practice of medicine because inherent to her delusions is a rigidity of thinking which involves the need to integrate all information into her preformed belief system. This need is intrinsically incompatible with the safe and effective practice of medicine because medicine involves being able to continuously reevaluate an initial diagnosis and consider differential diagnoses. The process of diagnosis requires the suspension of conclusions pending the accumulation of data. The Respondent believes that she already knows the answers before she begins to gather data. The Respondent believes that she is right, that she has special knowledge, and that her purpose on earth is to save others. . . .

Derivative of the Respondent's sense that she has special knowledge and that she is right is the notion that rules do not apply to her. This notion, at times, impairs her ability to maintain appropriate therapeutic boundaries in the physician-patient relationship. . . .

Finally, the Respondent has a continuous persistent impairment, which, in itself, is sufficient to render her unsafe to practice medicine [1].
I'd find someone new to get your info from.

http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/carley2.html
wfs

I hate to resort to ad hominem, but she claims she can cure cancer along with autism. And that all disease is the result of viruses.

Last edited by Andy Shirley : 03-31-2008 at 06:52 PM.
 
Old 03-31-2008, 07:49 PM   #125
Dale Kimberlin
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Re: Children's vaccinations

I happen to know the story of the license revocation, do you?

I appreciate the advice. If I were you I would find someone other than Stephen Barrett and his quackwatch site (AMA mouthpiece) to get my info from.

(WFS)
http://www.canlyme.com/quackwatch.html

Dr Carley has sound science and thinking.

If you know what causes cancer and disease you certainly have a better chance of curing it.

Are you not advocating the use of vaccines to "cure" normal childhood disease?

Again thanks for the advice.
 
Old 03-31-2008, 07:57 PM   #126
Scott Mahn
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Re: Children's vaccinations

EDIT: Dale you beat me to it, but I'll keep my post up too since it quotes the article you reference.

------


Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Shirley View Post

I'd find someone new to get your info from.

http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/carley2.html
wfs
I know nothing about Dr Carly, so I am not out to defend them in anyway, but in citing quackwatch, you too might want to "find someone new to get your info from."

Dr. Stephen Barrett of Quackwatch Exposed In Court Cases

At trial, under a heated cross-examination by Negrete, Barrett conceded that he was not a Medical Board Certified psychiatrist because he had failed the certification exam.

This was a major revelation since Barrett had provided supposed expert testimony as a psychiatrist and had testified in numerous court cases. Barrett also had said that he was a legal expert even though he had no formal legal training.

The most damning testimony before the jury, under the intense cross-examination by Negrete, was that Barrett had filed similar defamation lawsuits against almost 40 people across the country within the past few years and had not won one single one at trial.

During the course of his examination, Barrett also had to concede his ties to the AMA, Federal Trade Commission (FTC) and Food & Drug Administration (FDA).


WFS http://www.canlyme.com/quackwatch.html

Last edited by Scott Mahn : 03-31-2008 at 08:00 PM.
 
Old 03-31-2008, 08:00 PM   #127
Matt DeMinico
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Re: Children's vaccinations

Quote:
Originally Posted by George Mounce View Post
Chicken Pox can be very serious for adults. So you get it while a kid...or you can stop from even getting it. Think outside the box.
Except vaccines have shown to prevent a full immune response from the disease, so if you get immunized as a child, it may not fully immunize you from it. You could STILL get it after being immunized. Though maybe (or maybe not) you are less likely to get it. So, maybe you make it through childhood without getting it, but then when you become an adult, you may actually contract the disease (dangerous), when in fact it would have been better to just catch the real thing as a child.
 
Old 03-31-2008, 08:12 PM   #128
Andy Shirley
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Re: Children's vaccinations

I only quoted quackwatch b/c it had a better(non-pdf) link to the Board ruling.

Is this better:
http://w3.health.state.ny.us/opmc/factions.nsf/58220a7f9eeaafab85256b180058c032/777c474f253ed8d085256d5f0053955e/$FILE/lc175786.pdf
wfs

Quote:
Are you not advocating the use of vaccines to "cure" normal childhood disease?
1. No, I'm not advocating that vaccines "cure" anything. But they do prevent certain preventable diseases.
2. I haven't advocated for immunization. Please, find above where I've argued for that. I just would like to see better evidence, from both sides.


I also find it amusing that Carley was a surgeon by training, and now people are seeking "medical" advice. Maybe that's just me, too much time with doctors.
 
Old 03-31-2008, 08:35 PM   #129
Scott Mahn
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Re: Children's vaccinations

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Shirley View Post
I only quoted quackwatch b/c it had a better(non-pdf) link to the Board ruling.

Is this better:
http://w3.health.state.ny.us/opmc/factions.nsf/58220a7f9eeaafab85256b180058c032/777c474f253ed8d085256d5f0053955e/$FILE/lc175786.pdf
wfs

Haha, my bad. I didn't even open the link when I saw it was from quackwatch.
 
Old 03-31-2008, 08:41 PM   #130
George Mounce
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Re: Children's vaccinations

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Originally Posted by Matt DeMinico View Post
Except vaccines have shown to prevent a full immune response from the disease, so if you get immunized as a child, it may not fully immunize you from it. You could STILL get it after being immunized. Though maybe (or maybe not) you are less likely to get it. So, maybe you make it through childhood without getting it, but then when you become an adult, you may actually contract the disease (dangerous), when in fact it would have been better to just catch the real thing as a child.
All you man. You aren't one I feel the need to argue with on these boards as I've noticed the tendency for it to lead to issues unrelated to the argument.

Anything you get as a kid can be weak later - hence boosters. If you don't want to vaccinate your kids, all you. I'll be vaccinating mine as its saved many more people than its ever hurt. I've also seen what it does to those who don't get it and end up worse for wear.

1 example (chicken pox) doesn't a rule make.
 
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