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Old 07-25-2010, 08:15 PM   #1
Sean Richard
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Whats the crossfit take on the following article

this link is family and child safe

what is your opinion on the following article on weightlifting,bodybuilding and powerlifting? is there really that much danger to weightlifting like this article says?
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Old 07-25-2010, 08:39 PM   #2
Jamie J. Skibicki
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Re: Whats the crossfit take on the following article

It's true in application, but not in theory. Powerlifters aren't very flexible not because they cannot be, but because they don't care to be. ANd as far as it not being usable, yes, there are super heavy weights that are just barely fit enough to "waddle up the monolift and squat 1000", but they are not the norm. Super heavies have the most problems, but once you get out of that class, they are fairly athletic.

And to say that power lifters work in osolation is complete crap. THey do spend time bringing up weak points, but that is in an attempt to make the whole greater. ANd when you are deadlifting 800, you can't just go deadlift, it's way to taxing, so you address teh individual part that is holding you back.

And the point about the golf swing is just stupid. You don't strength train to have a better golf swing, or better pass or right cross. You strength train to have a better potential golf swing, pass or right cross and you then perfect it with skill training. Saying you don't need to strength train because it doesn't improve a movement pattern as much as skill practice is really just an excuse to not do hard things that you don't want to do.
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Old 07-25-2010, 09:18 PM   #3
Eric Montgomery
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Re: Whats the crossfit take on the following article

Complete quackery...let's see, where to begin:

"Bodybuilding and powerlifting injure your joints and connective tissue, but for opposite causes: the former due to excessive repetitions and the latter due to excessive tension. The local wear and tear of high volume and intensity causes the connective tissue over joints to become strained, shortened and compressed. Though the muscle tissue is larger and stronger in bodybuilders and powerlifters, weak joints are a catastrophic injury waiting to happen"
-I guess he didn't consider that tendons, ligaments, and connective tissues can adapt to incremental increases of stress too? When muscles get stronger due to progressive overload, they do too.

"Why is it that bodybuilding and powerlifting have little to no positive carry-over to performance?"
-So all those football players you see squatting, benching, and deadlifting are hurting their on-field performance? Someone alert all the Athletic Directors in the SEC and PAC-10 that they need to fire their football S&C coaches immediately, this guy Scott Sonnon is on to something.

"Over the years hundred thousand dollar bodybuilding machines evolved to shackle us in place, forcing the load to be localized as much as possible."
-And this applies to the barbell lifts how?

"Like bodybuilding, these so-called power-lifts cause us to move less and less until, through injury and adaptation, one’s mobility becomes non-existent."
-I guess that's why I saw several 70+ year old lifters at the USAPL-sanctioned California State Games two weeks ago, a few of whom could outlift me. I wonder how much lower back pain they didn't get over the last few decades because their whole body was strong from years of good squats and deadlifts.

"an Olympic clean and jerk versus the powerlifting deadlift or squat"

-So what about a 1RM C&J, is the front squat out of the clean bad for you since it's probably slow and grinded out?

He keeps bringing up martial arts...martial arts are a skill that are mostly unrelated to strength, but I think you'd be hard-pressed to find any MMA fighter who wouldn't see the utility in adding 100lbs to his powerlifts.

He also keeps equating size with strength. While an increase in one can correspond to an increase in the other, it's not always necessarily the case. Most people will see most of their initial strength gains because of improved neuromuscular efficiency--getting bigger isn't necessary to get stronger at first.

Not to mention the fact that the powerlifts are about as anti-isolation as you can get--the downside to doing nothing but isolation movements is that you don't develop the body as it would operate in real lift because you've done nothing but single joint, non-compound movements. How does that apply to a squat or a deadlift? What single muscle or joint is overstressed in those movements?
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Old 07-25-2010, 09:49 PM   #4
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: Whats the crossfit take on the following article

The way he conflates bodybuilding and powerlifting demonstrates that he doesn't know much about either.

And his discussion of "smaller, weaker" martial artists shows that he also doesn't know much about martial arts. I know plenty of high ranking martial artists who are small, but none who are weak. Nor do competitive martial arts provide a true test of the smaller vs. stronger question, since weight classes keep the biggest and smallest people from fighting each other.

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Old 07-26-2010, 05:38 AM   #5
Albert Chang
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Re: Whats the crossfit take on the following article

I'm not gonna lie, I stopped at this:
However, in combat sports such as mixed martial arts competitions, smaller and weaker but more athletic fighters specifically conditioned for their sport win the day most frequently.
smaller and weaker, yet more athletic? You may not have to be the strongest person, but strength will help and it will make you more athletic.

Here's a scenario I was in. I was in a fight back when I weighed 130lbs or so. I had some background in various martial arts, and the guy I was fighting had little to no martial arts training and weighed 195lbs. No judges or anything, one on one. He sat on me, and you can bet I wished I was strong enough to just stand up and throw him off me.

I managed to get out of it, but it definitely would've been easier and the fight would've ended earlier if I could've just stood up.
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Old 07-26-2010, 05:46 AM   #6
Brian Degenaro
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Re: Whats the crossfit take on the following article

Sonnon is singing the same tunes over and over again, hoping someone will finally listen to him.
There is no substitute for strength, and no excuse for the lack of it.
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Old 07-26-2010, 08:01 AM   #7
Tony Black
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Re: Whats the crossfit take on the following article

Originally Posted by Brian Degenaro View Post
Sonnon is singing the same tunes over and over again, hoping someone will finally listen to him.
I dunno some of his stuff used to be halfway decent. Although it often seems to be traditional stuff rebranded Sonnon style and strangely made very very expensive.

But that article is just balderdash!

Do you pick doorway #1 or doorway #2? Do you want to be strong or do you want to be flexible? You cannot be very strong and very flexible at the same time, because they are polar opposites. Strength, or muscular tension, is the ability to contract and shorten tissue – flexibility, contrarily, is the ability to release and lengthen tissue.
Yea m8 he'd best be telling all those OL lifters!
Tell that to a guy i know with a 300kg BS who also does the box splits.....
The live drill is violent, it's sudden and chaotic, it's over before you've even got started and you're never prepared for what happens....welcome to fighting - Mick Coup
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Old 07-26-2010, 08:22 AM   #8
John Stone
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Re: Whats the crossfit take on the following article

That article was a lot of baseless rhetoric.

* the top MMA fighters strength train

* smaller, weaker fighters typically get blown out of the water regardless of their athleticism (Japanese vs American MMA should show this to be true on the large scale very, very clearly)

* powerlifters seem to have long-term problems because they train stupid -- as advanced as their lifting methods may be, they don't seem as a whole to be able to take time off to let an injury heal; every time I read some powerlifters story, it is full of him training through some injury (I had a tracheotomy and was in the gym the next day, I broke my spine and was in the gym the next day, my arm was eaten by a bear and I was in the gym the next day et cetera)
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Old 07-26-2010, 08:50 AM   #9
Chris Mason
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Re: Whats the crossfit take on the following article

Perhaps the author would like to challenge me to a fight?

Wait a minute, he isn't some crazy level marital artist is he?
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Old 07-26-2010, 08:55 AM   #10
Ralston Baker
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Re: Whats the crossfit take on the following article

Powerlifter = Bodybuilder = Ignorance

Weak Fighter = Strong Fighter = Stupid

Golf Swing = MMA fight = dont even get me started.
M/ 26/ 5'11/ 190lbs Fran:2:11 Squat (High Bar):500 C&J:356# Snatch: 264# FSquat:420 Grace: 1:38
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