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Old 04-22-2008, 03:51 PM   #1
Joe Waguespack
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Any experience with Keto diets?

I recently had a UFC fighter come to me for training and he has been seriously misled by a guy at his gym that has gotten him on a ketogenic diet. He has been doing this for a while to drop weight for a fight in a month and a half. He has also suffered serious fatigue and a drop in performance, imagine that! He is very psyched about the training I have come up with for him to get him ready and he is also excited about trying the Zone. I am not very familiar with Keto diets other than what I have read. I have no first hand experience with it , much less transitioning someone from Keto to Zone. Does anyone have any experience with this? Is there anything I should be cautious of? Normally it would be a trial and error thing to see what works, but we need to get his performance up while still shedding a few more pounds so he can make weight and we don't have the time to experiment. I know the re-introduction of carbs will add some temporary water weight , but can anyone offer any experience with this that may help.
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Old 04-22-2008, 06:44 PM   #2
Jay Cohen
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Re: Any experience with Keto diets?

Joe;
Maybe Rob Wolf will chime in, or cross post over on the PM boards.
Few good websites on keto diet, nothing wrong with it, just very very low carb, but high fat and protein.
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Old 04-22-2008, 06:52 PM   #3
Joe Waguespack
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Re: Any experience with Keto diets?

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Originally Posted by Jay Cohen View Post
Joe;
Maybe Rob Wolf will chime in, or cross post over on the PM boards.
Few good websites on keto diet, nothing wrong with it, just very very low carb, but high fat and protein.
Yeah, my client filled me in on what he has been doing. I'm sure it has it's place and I know a lot of body builders and figure athletes use it to lean out, but as far as a performance diet for a fighter or an athlete that needs constant energy and endurance it doesn't seem optimal.I know the Zone will be much better for him and support his activities and training.
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Old 04-22-2008, 10:33 PM   #4
Jacob Cloud
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Re: Any experience with Keto diets?

I rarely post, but I'm bored and I actually have experience with this, so here goes: I'm not exactly the sharpest dude around, but on hardcore keto diets, I'm absolutely dull. They help me shed fat extremely quickly, but in addition to making me even stupider, they absolutely kill any drive or ambition in the gym. I also recover much more slowly and have much less stamina under the bar. About 3-4 days into my last lame attempt at getting skinny, I tried a super squat (1x20 reps) routine of squats with 315...at rep 15 or 16, my heart rate hit 185 or so and I almost passed out. The keto diet, it don't like when I get intense. It don't like it one bit. I find my heart rate gets up much more quickly, and stays up even after I'm done working out. That's not really awesome.

So, from my experience, I'd say...Not a smart diet for a late 20's pudgy guy trying to crossfit. I'd assume, therefore, it's a really stupid diet for anyone trying to play (or spell) UFC.
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Old 04-23-2008, 03:07 AM   #5
Gerhard Lavin
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Re: Any experience with Keto diets?

Google Lyle McDonald, he has written loads on the subject. Basically

A keto diet is a very low carb diet. An example would be the initial phase of Atkins. Not great for most people to train on.

Bodybuilders have been using either Cyclic Ketogenic Diets (CKD) or Targeted Ketogenic Diets (TKD) to trim down for years.

CKD is ketogeic during the week with a weekend carb up.
TKD is ketogenic with a carb up before or after.

TKD is probably close to a reduced carb Zone or paleo diet in macronutrient profile.
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Old 04-23-2008, 06:14 AM   #6
Joe Waguespack
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Re: Any experience with Keto diets?

Thanks a lot guys
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Old 04-23-2008, 07:03 AM   #7
Tim Luby
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Re: Any experience with Keto diets?

Don't know anything about this diet off-hand, but it sounds like crap. Ketone bodies are the energy source your body produces (from fat) in the absence of glycogen/glucose. As such, it's not the best source of energy.
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Old 04-23-2008, 07:51 AM   #8
Joe Waguespack
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Re: Any experience with Keto diets?

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Originally Posted by Tim Luby View Post
Don't know anything about this diet off-hand, but it sounds like crap. Ketone bodies are the energy source your body produces (from fat) in the absence of glycogen/glucose. As such, it's not the best source of energy.
I did a diet YEARS ago called Body Opus by Dan Duchaine, which I'm assuming was a ketogenic diet from what I remember. I remember feeling like crap , getting weak and losing way to much weight way to fast. I know some tout keto diets as safe and effective if done properly, but I just can't see any reason or explanation for a performance athlete to eat that way. I just had him slowly re-introduce carbs back into his diet over the past weekend and he came yesterday and is already feeling human again, his energy is up and he is "regular" again for the first time since starting the keto diet. I really got him dialed in on his Zone blocks and food choices yesterday, so we will see how things go. I think he will be pleasantly surprised at how much his performance improves as his BF% continues to drop. At least after coming off of such a restricted diet I know he has the discipline to keep his zone strict.
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Old 04-23-2008, 08:10 AM   #9
Anthony Bainbridge
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Re: Any experience with Keto diets?

How much weight does he have to cut?
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Old 04-23-2008, 08:23 AM   #10
Tim Luby
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Re: Any experience with Keto diets?

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I just can't see any reason or explanation for a performance athlete to eat that way.
Exactly. Unless he is cutting (which Anthony was alluding to).
I had another thought on keto diets and that is that I suppose IF is a "mini keto diet." In this regard, it may not be a bad thing. But again, like the keto diet, I know almost nothing about IF.
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