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Old 04-30-2007, 03:06 PM   #101
Mark Brinton
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Most business people know that they gain nothing by gratuituously offending the sensibilities of their erstwhile clients where there is nothing at stake. That said, a business with a commitment to its traditions and ethics will knowingly accept the loss of some clients whose sensibilities are offended if it decides - in good conscience - that making concessions to offended clients goes too far and compromises too much of what key constituents of the business consider parts of its "soul". Fair enough. Although I believe extending the NWFS policy to the main website is not unreasonable, I acknowledge the eloquence and logic of the objections by those advocating the status quo. I will alter my behavior accordingly. When showing my sons these amazing feats of athleticism, I will either first preview the video or mute the sound.
 
Old 04-30-2007, 03:29 PM   #102
Mark Brinton
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...but, on the meta-level of the discussion, I agree with Barry. To the extent that this oftentimes misogynist music is merely reflective of mainstream culture, I would say so much the worse for mainstream culture. The analogy I follow with is imperfect but... here goes. I was in the Navy in the '70's. Drug use in all services was rife... and excused as being reflective of the mainstream. The unstated conclusion was that we couldn't expect better from our service people than we expected from the mainstream. At some point around '80. The services decided to establish a more exceptionalist stance. Insofar as drug use was concerned, it was not acceptable that the military reflected the mainstream culture...
 
Old 04-30-2007, 03:30 PM   #103
Rene Renteria
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The swearing and the misogyny are two different issues but are being conflated here. Similarly, I don’t view this as a business decision but as a moral one. (Oh no! Slippery slopes!) It’s the violent language and imagery mostly about women that is most offensive. Why do you need to ride your high horse about sticking it to the Man, free speech, free will, and shove your PC where the sun don’t shine on the backs of women?

Would you use “Cop Killer”, “***** the Police”, or the like, presuming you liked the music? If not, why not?

Why choose your songs from perhaps the worst examples of mainstream misogyny (at least that I know of), with lyrics that glorify raping women? Why does it seem to happen that you choose these songs when it’s in videos with women? Why don’t the women get REO Speedwagon instead of “Nasty Girls” and the Nickelback song? Just because they weren’t running? I don’t think so.

We all have our own conception of the world, of what is right, what is moral. CrossFit.com would seem to align itself with certain or many facets of that conception, or we wouldn’t be here. When such blatant misogyny gets posted it makes some users of the site say, “Whoa, that’s not what I thought CrossFit was about! WTF, where did that come from?” because it is so off-axis with that conception of moral behavior above the commonality of this modern world. And it doesn’t fit in (at least from my point of view) with all the shouting and banning about integrity from past episodes.

So we speak out and then have to dodge the rotten tomatoes. Sure, I also have to think, “Hmm, maybe I’m just being a prude or haven’t accepted where the world is right now.” But I don’t end up thinking that yes, we need more places to desensitize us to violence that men do against women or even glorify it.

Because of the athletic excellence of the CrossFit women, isn’t this a great place NOT to do that, to buck the common trend of just saying, “yeah, whatever, cool beat”? Stick it to the Man that way.

If you’re trying to make a statement about how social presssure is homogenizing us to the lowest common denominator, that’s one thing, but the statement was made that it’s simply about hard core or “good” music. Why is it so hard to re-examine why one feels it apt to add music to those videos with such misogynistic lyrics? Sometimes “politically correct” is also morally correct.
 
Old 04-30-2007, 04:57 PM   #104
Garry Berryhill
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Any business focused on using its online presence as a hybrid of service, community and advertisement would do well to ensure that no elements of its online face were overtly and unecessarily insulting to its potential and current customers.

Inasmuch as I find the song in question insulting, I do so because it's so awful. Biblically awful. Forty years of darkness, boiling oceans, the dead rising from their graves, cats and dogs living together, mass hysteria awful. Were I not a man of faith, I might have had my mind shattered by the horror of a universe that gave rise to Nickelback.

If confronted by the discarded comb of Joey Ramone, the entire band Nickelback must flee in naked terror, lest they be consumed.

Lemmy Kilmister dueled them all, singlehandedly, armed only with shards of broken whiskey bottles pulled from his own ragged flesh, in a heroic delaying action that saved thousands of preteens from the embarrassment of wearing Nickelback concert shirts to class.

Once upon a time Nickelback attempted to touch the bare flesh of Dick Dale in order to contaminate him with their mediocrity. Dick was crafty, however, and fended them off with a Rickenbacker he kept handy for just such an eventuality, firing off secret licks in a Surf SOS until Link Wray, his perfected form too glorious to describe, arrived in a chariot formed from the ancient fires of the Sun and drove Nickelback from the sight of all free peoples.

They wait now in their mountain fortress, idly watching the demonic gamboling of their goblin hordes, biding their time until the day when the musical tastes of mankind once again sink into decadence.

I mean all this literally, of course. :-)
 
Old 04-30-2007, 05:00 PM   #105
David Wood
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Actually, I think playing that is "PC" . . . it's pretending to have some connection to a life of suffering that most of us here (thank God) don't have.

Seriously, there are probably some sad and benighted corners of America where the pain that passes as "rap" could be considered an authentic expression of what the singer sees around him. Maybe, just maybe, for a person still caught in such a cesspool, rap can be thought of as something redeeming, something "real".

For everyone else, in particular for those from a largely privileged skin color and economic set, trying to get "real" by listening to that is just pathetic . . . and incredibly "politically correct" . . . "look at me, I must be cool, I listen to a really hard beat while people talk about murder and rape . . . yeah!" . . .

For those who come from settings where that music is real, it's generally an experience to be transcended, not celebrated.


Seriously, Tony, you do a fabulous job, and, if you and the Santa Cruz trainers actually *like* that kind of music, fire away . . . I've been using the mute button for years. Just don't kid yourself that you're somehow "revolutionary" in your taste . . . it's just conforming to a new lower denominator.

But, hey, I'm old . . . what do I know?
 
Old 04-30-2007, 06:38 PM   #106
Tom Whalen
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Tony,

"... misconceptions in this debate. The first is that the music in the videos has become more explicit of late."

I am objecting the lyrics on the hang squat clean/pullup WO last week. You will never please everybody w/ your musical choices, but the lyrics that day were way over the line.

"It is not our responsibility to protect you from aspects of our culture that you don't like."

Those lyrics are not part of our (if you mean CF) culture. I've heard nothing like that at the 4 affiliates I've worked out at; there's nothing like that in any CF Journal; I didn't hear Coach Burgener use any tone approaching that in the clinics I've been to, there's nothing like it from any link on the main site. Except it's one click away via your videos.

The calls to "turn off your speakers" miss the point since the objection is the frankly weird association between quality videos of elite fitness and vile lyrics.

Like the Glassmans own CF, you own your videos so the 3 of you are the arbiters. It's not a "showstopper" for me.
 
Old 04-30-2007, 07:04 PM   #107
Kurt Holm
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Any votes for the bucket on this one?
 
Old 04-30-2007, 07:50 PM   #108
Bill Russell
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107 posts in 4 days, nice!! :stirthepot:

My 2 cents.

Tony spends countless hours editing and producing these videos.

He does a great job.

I learn a lot from his clips. I especially enjoy his captions pointing out correct and incorrect form.

When someone else with the talent volunteers to relieve him of his duties, that person can pick the music. Until then......

Personally, I'm not a big fan of most of the music lyrically. Truth is, I really don't pay attention. I'm watching form and reading his comments in the captions.

I can honestly say that the first time I watched the vid of the 4 ladies doing pullups I did not notice how vulgar the lyrics were. I just remember liking the track.

Keep it up Tony, you're doing a great job.





(Message edited by Otis My Man on April 30, 2007)
 
Old 04-30-2007, 08:06 PM   #109
Stefan Borovina
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Garry... well said. Anybody who can tie in ghostbusters to a discussion like this gets my vote.
 
Old 04-30-2007, 09:25 PM   #110
Garry Berryhill
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I aim to entertain.
 
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