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Old 06-13-2013, 08:08 AM   #11
Joffray Marcantel
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Re: "High" Cholesterol at 23

I basically follow Paleo + diary.

4 eggs, few slices of ham, peppers, bowl of oatmeal for breakfast

I'll have 2 egg muffins (Google this recipe, it's amazing) and an apple for mid-morning snack

Lunch is reheated stew (I'll make like 3lb of meat, 3 potatoes, 1lb of carrots, some peas, and tomato sauce in a crockpot). I have it 5-6 days a week.

Pre-workout I'll have a small cup of coffee and an orange. Post- I'll have a shake with 16oz whole milk, protein powder, and creatine plus a potato.

Then for dinner I'll mix up another shake (8oz cream, 8oz whole milk).

I'll also have a few handfuls of spinach and a couple shots of EVOO too on top of my fish oil and multi. I also drink about 3L of water every day. I'll go through 3 dozen eggs in a week, which some people tell me is too much.

I'm also concerned about my Basophils Percentage which is 1.2 and flagged as high. Googling what that means in relation to my health hasn't yielded any positive results, ranging from acute allergic reactions to a cause for some type of leukemia. My Blood Urea Nitrogen level was 24 which I just attribute to my high-protein diet.
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Last edited by Joffray Marcantel : 06-13-2013 at 08:12 AM.
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Old 06-13-2013, 09:40 AM   #12
Bill M. Hesse
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Re: "High" Cholesterol at 23

I am going to rise against the crowd a little here and say if you are concerned about your LDL (which is the only number that is high) you need to address items in your diet like cream and butter. Saturated fat is the only reason that number is higher. It isn't genetic if you are eating a lot of saturated fat.

In short, if your are curious about your numbers and yet state you don't want to change your diet, then there isn't anything to be done. LDL is linked very directly to your saturated fat intake. Some people are more sensitive to dietary intake than others.

If your HDL was consistently high I would say you don't need to worry about it as much but considering HDL is what polices your LDL I would think twice before letting a bunch of internetz professionals tell you cholesterol doesn't matter and you are fine. Contrary to popular opinion, the healthcare industry research is not a scandal to put you on statins and take your money. Cholesterol isn't the only think to be concerned about because inflammation is needed too, but they both play a part in the puzzle. If you are 100% sure your inflammation is not a factor then you should be good, but I suspect you have a little of both going on. Here is a snip it from a wikipedia article explaining some of the factors that play into your favor:

LDL particles vary in size and density, and studies have shown that a pattern that has more small dense LDL particles, called Pattern B, equates to a higher risk factor for coronary heart disease (CHD) than does a pattern with more of the larger and less-dense LDL particles (Pattern A). This is thought to be because the smaller particles are more easily able to penetrate the endothelium. Pattern I, for intermediate, indicates that most LDL particles are very close in size to the normal gaps in the endothelium (26 nm). According to one study, sizes 19.0–20.5 nm were designated as pattern B and LDL sizes 20.6–22 nm were designated as pattern A.[5]

Some in the medical community have suggested the correspondence between Pattern B and CHD is stronger than the correspondence between the LDL number measured in the standard lipid profile test. Tests to measure these LDL subtype patterns have been more expensive and not widely available, so the common lipid profile test is used more often.[6]

There has also been noted a correspondence between higher triglyceride levels and higher levels of smaller, denser LDL particles and alternately lower triglyceride levels and higher levels of the larger, less dense LDL.[7][8]

With continued research, decreasing cost, greater availability and wider acceptance of other lipoprotein subclass analysis assay methods, including NMR spectroscopy,[9] research studies have continued to show a stronger correlation between human clinically obvious cardiovascular event and quantitatively measured particle concentrations.

The take away to know bout the small particle LDL is it's size lets it fit between endothelial cells in the arteries that triggers an immune response which creates a plaque formation.

I gave you my 2 cents. Do what you want with the information. The main point I wanted to get across to you is that LDL does matter and and is primarily affected by diet and saturated fat intake particularly. Instead of butter try canola oil or olive oil (not EVOO for cooking), and consider a little peanutbutter instead of cream in your shakes.
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Old 06-13-2013, 09:57 AM   #13
Phil Washlow
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Re: "High" Cholesterol at 23

Saturated fat does not increase LDL. LDL-C is pretty much useless.
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Old 06-13-2013, 10:23 AM   #14
Michael Dries
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Re: "High" Cholesterol at 23

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill M. Hesse View Post
Cholesterol isn't the only think to be concerned about because inflammation is needed too, but they both play a part in the puzzle. If you are 100% sure your inflammation is not a factor then you should be good, but I suspect you have a little of both going on. Here is a snip it from a wikipedia article explaining some of the factors that play into your favor:



I gave you my 2 cents. Do what you want with the information. The main point I wanted to get across to you is that LDL does matter and and is primarily affected by diet and saturated fat intake particularly. Instead of butter try canola oil or olive oil (not EVOO for cooking), and consider a little peanutbutter instead of cream in your shakes.
I absolutely agree with the above but not with the recommendation of canola oil. That stuff is HEAVILY omega6 rich and EASILY oxidizable. Not something I would suggest eating and cooking with if you are trying to bring down inflammation.

If the OP is training on a regular basis and is otherwise healthy increasing carb intake after training and decreasing overall s-fat intake may help the situation.

Last edited by Michael Dries : 06-13-2013 at 10:32 AM.
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Old 06-13-2013, 10:31 AM   #15
Bill M. Hesse
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Re: "High" Cholesterol at 23

It is higher in cooking temp than olive oil and has 1.3g of omega-3. I am not sure where your information came from but:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/canola-oil/AN01281

http://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/canola-oil

http://www.canolacouncil.org/oil-and...-of-canola-oil

http://www.nutritionheart.com/canola-oil-health/

all links are wfs
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Old 06-13-2013, 10:32 AM   #16
Bill M. Hesse
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Re: "High" Cholesterol at 23

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Washlow View Post
Saturated fat does not increase LDL. LDL-C is pretty much useless.
Plenty of evidence suggests otherwise

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9101427

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10958817

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15983524

And here is even a summary that found a specific saturated fat that lowered TG to be fair:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23619368

This however does not mean it is not influencing LDL

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16904539

Saturated fat reducing effectiveness of HDL

All WFS

Last edited by Bill M. Hesse : 06-13-2013 at 10:51 AM. Reason: decided to go hunting
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Old 06-13-2013, 10:42 AM   #17
Michael Dries
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Re: "High" Cholesterol at 23

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill M. Hesse View Post
It is higher in cooking temp than olive oil and has 1.3g of omega-3. I am not sure where your information came from but:

all links are wfs
Not to pick at nits but...

I got my information here
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/fats-and-oils/621/2 WFS
the link here claims 18% omega6


Olive oil is about 10% omega3.

The omega 3 in any vegetable source is ALA so the conversion to EPA and DHA are crap. And the enzymatic process is competitive between omega-3 and omega-6 so the more n6 you load into the system the worse the conversion and usage of n3 is.

Aside from the suggestion to use canola oil, I agree with your post and advice.
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Old 06-13-2013, 11:07 AM   #18
Bill M. Hesse
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Re: "High" Cholesterol at 23

that is still a 2:1 omega 6 to omega 3 ratio in canola. quite favorable.

http://www.oliveoilsource.com/defini...-6-fatty-acids WFS
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Old 06-13-2013, 11:29 AM   #19
Todd R Bailey
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Re: "High" Cholesterol at 23

Saturate fat intake does not appear to affect LDL levels when looking at an overall population. However, "there’s some variation in how individuals respond to dietary saturated fat. If we took ten people, fed them a diet high in saturated fat, and measured their cholesterol levels, we’d see a range of responses that averages out to no net increase or decrease."
http://chriskresser.com/the-diet-hea...-not-the-enemy (wfs)

So, on average, saturated fat will not increase LDL. However, Joffray is an individual and not an average. He could be a hyper responder whose LDL increases with saturated fat intake. Having said that, the question still remains whether it makes any difference. I agree that LDL-C as a stand alone number doesn't tell you anything with any predictive value. You may be very healthy or unhealthy with an LDL-C of 157.

Bill's post about LDL particle size is good information and particle size does appear to be a more accurate indicator. However, even more important is your LDL particle number ("LDL-P") which is generally not measured, even in a VAP test. "Particle size loses its predictive value after adjustment for particle number. In other words, particle number is more important. This is evident from looking at people with Familial Hypercholesterolemia (FH), who have predominantly large, buoyant LDL particles but are still at three-fold greater risk of death from heart disease (because of their high LDL particle number)."
https://chriskresser.com/the-diet-he...article-number (wfs)

I second Phil's recommendation to take a look at the eatingacademy.com website he posted. Also, as you can tell from the links I've provided, I think highly of Chris Kresser's recent series on Heart Disease/Cholesterol. Not as detailed as The Eating Academy series, but shorter and a little more accessible for the lay person.

One final point. One or even two cholesterol tests don’t accurately tell you how a change in diet or lifestyle is affecting you. TC, LDL and HDL levels can vary greatly in the same person from day to day without any change in diet or lifestyle. In one study, 20 subjects had 4 serum cholesterol tests over the course of a month. “Variations of more than ±20% in the, serum levels of total cholesterol, low-density lipoprotein cholesterol, and high-density lipoprotein cholesterol were seen in 75%, 95%, and 65% of the subjects, respectively.”
(http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/arti...ticleid=652985) (wfs)

You read that right, 19 of the 20 subjects saw a variation of more than 20% in their LDL level. In your case, the change in your LDL level is within that 20% variation (although it is getting close). You really need to track this for a while to see if this is a trend or simply the result of natural and normal fluctuations.

As you can see there are a lot of opinions and info on this stuff. The best you can do is read as much as you can until you feel comfortable making up your own mind.
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Old 06-13-2013, 11:41 AM   #20
Phil Washlow
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Re: "High" Cholesterol at 23

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14601690 (wfs)

Saturated fat does not impact LDL or HDL concentrations. It does though lower TG and VLDL, both of which are positives.

http://vimeo.com/45485034 (wfs), lecture on cholesterol.
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