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Old 07-17-2012, 11:05 PM   #11
Aaron C Bennett
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Re: EU affiliates against CROSSGYM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Molnar View Post
First of all I am a garage gym crossfitter, stealing the ideas from the main site and from you guys, don't even have a CF level1 certificate, but still:
one thing is not so clear for me: in case of CrossGym wins, anybody in Europe can open a crossfit gym, without any qualification?!
Now, tell me how the hell can somebody teach Snatch or C&J without any serious experience and knowledge?
Or maybe you pay some gym entry fee and you are on your own to do whatever you want.....(that is similiar to the current Globo gym method)-> that will cause lack on progression, funny youtube videos to upload and INJURIES.
I mean any stupid wannabe can do some bench press without hurting him/herself, but for example snatch is way different. I took 2 months of intensive weighlifting training lessons from a hungarian world champion, and still learning the proper moves....

Jesus, that sounds stupid.
If CrossGym wins, it means anyone can open a CrossGym gym. Crossfit will still be protected, just not CrossXXX. Crossfit didn't invent any of the exercises, so they can't argue from that stance. Crosstraining existed for many years prior to the founding of Crossfit, so it will be a difficult case to make on that regard. The best case Crossfit has is for brand confusion and dilution.
Anyone can teach a snatch or a C&J as it is, regardless of what Crossfit says or does. Even in Crossfit, there is a huge problem with poor instruction and bad programming (check the injuries section for proof). There are many types of gyms out there that had been doing stuff like Crossfit long before Crossfit popularized it (I know we did similar workouts in skiing dry land practice in the mid-90's). You yourself admit that the training you got about Olympic lifts came from a weightlifter, not from Crossfit. There's little in the exercises or programming that can really set Crossfit apart from the similar programs (not enough to be legally actionable in any way).
Crossfit will need to separate themselves from the wannabes. As it stands, Crossfit isn't doing it with the quality of instruction. While we all know that their are good Crossfit trainers and boxes, but more and more seem to be going it alone, having realized that their own reputation they have built is more valuable than the Crossfit brand, without the negative stigma.
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Old 07-17-2012, 11:29 PM   #12
Richard Colon
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Re: EU affiliates against CROSSGYM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Molnar View Post
First of all I am a garage gym crossfitter, stealing the ideas from the main site and from you guys, don't even have a CF level1 certificate, but still:
one thing is not so clear for me: in case of CrossGym wins, anybody in Europe can open a crossfit gym, without any qualification?!
Now, tell me how the hell can somebody teach Snatch or C&J without any serious experience and knowledge?
Or maybe you pay some gym entry fee and you are on your own to do whatever you want.....(that is similiar to the current Globo gym method)-> that will cause lack on progression, funny youtube videos to upload and INJURIES.
I mean any stupid wannabe can do some bench press without hurting him/herself, but for example snatch is way different. I took 2 months of intensive weighlifting training lessons from a hungarian world champion, and still learning the proper moves....

Jesus, that sounds stupid.
All else aside, please don't make the mistake of thinking that owning a gym or being a part of Crossfit gives you credibility to teach Olympic lifts. Don't be "that guy" dismissing the Bench Press as the exercise that "they do". It is entirely complex to do properly and your dismissing of the movement, granted it is NOT an O-lift shows your own lack of knowledge. Watch some Dave Tate video and be humbled in regards to the complexitity (regardless of importance in Crossfit) of the Bench. Anyhow...

I have met people that were former personal trainers at big box/globo gyms that had never even heard of Crossfit and this is recently (within a year). They would blow a few Crossfit level 1 trainers out of the water.

There are dumb@ss trainers, stupid programming and overall silly dumb stuff in all of fitness. Crossfit doesn't make someone exempt from that.
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Old 07-18-2012, 01:06 AM   #13
Pearse Shields
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Re: EU affiliates against CROSSGYM

To be fair, the Level 1 cert done over one weekend doesn't guarantee good coaching ability or quality. Just my 2 cents on the issue.
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Old 07-18-2012, 03:16 AM   #14
Ewen Roth
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Re: EU affiliates against CROSSGYM

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Originally Posted by Aaron C Bennett View Post
If CrossGym wins, it means anyone can open a CrossGym gym. Crossfit will still be protected, just not CrossXXX.
Basically agree with everything else you said, but this isn't exactly true.

CrossGym have their own affiliation and certification programme in place/in the works. They're certainly not trying to open the door for unrelated CrossGym establishments to open all over the place without their approval. If they win, CrossFit will not be protected, that's the whole point: to open gyms that aren't affiliated with CF Inc. but that use the word crossfit (instead of the usual cross-training or functional fitness) to grab attention and clients. Might happen one day (like spinning and pilates), but I understand why CF and its affiliates would be fighting this.

Semi-related question: do you have to be an affiliate to field a team for the Games?
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Old 07-18-2012, 08:30 AM   #15
Steve Gillanders
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Re: EU affiliates against CROSSGYM

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Originally Posted by Ewen Roth View Post
Semi-related question: do you have to be an affiliate to field a team for the Games?
Yes, to have a team compete at the CrossFit Games it must be represented by a CrossFit Affiliate...
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Old 07-18-2012, 08:41 AM   #16
Ewen Roth
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Re: EU affiliates against CROSSGYM

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Originally Posted by Steve Gillanders View Post
Yes, to have a team compete at the CrossFit Games it must be represented by a CrossFit Affiliate...
I see. So de/un-affiliated and copycat gyms could theoretically field individual athletes for the Games but not teams.
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Old 07-19-2012, 08:04 PM   #17
Russell Greene
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Re: EU affiliates against CROSSGYM

Aaron,

That is not true. Cross Gym's own lawsuit makes it clear what their position is:

"The term CrossFit undoubtedly is a generic name - also for CrossFit Inc. - for the specific, peculiar type of gymnastics. The sign in question has surely lost its distinguishing feature (even if we grant for the sake of argument that it ever had such a feature originally - see below) and the CrossFit trademark no longer is in a position to identify the product/service as the issue of a specific company, but any type of gymnastics which has characteristics that are similar to those specified above is defined crossfit by anybody and independently of the source/origin.

Actually, crossfit is practiced in many gyms that are not affiliate to Crossfit Inc. For these reasons Functional Store (Cross Gym) requests that the honorable judge, acting as Community Trademark Court as per Reg. 40/94/EC , may prove and sentence invalidity of EC Crossfit trademark nos. 5049192 and 1086145..."

Source: http://issuu.com/alamery12/docs/lawsuit_cancel_ctm_cf-1 (w/f/s)

Let's be clear. If Cross Gym gets its way, the CrossFit trademark will no longer be valid in Europe and the basis of the CrossFit Affiliate system in Europe will be destroyed.

In that case, absolutely anyone will be able to legally hold CrossFit classes or open a CrossFit gym in Europe. It won't matter if they know a kipping pull-up from a lat pull-down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron C Bennett View Post
If CrossGym wins, it means anyone can open a CrossGym gym. Crossfit will still be protected, just not CrossXXX. Crossfit didn't invent any of the exercises, so they can't argue from that stance. Crosstraining existed for many years prior to the founding of Crossfit, so it will be a difficult case to make on that regard. The best case Crossfit has is for brand confusion and dilution.
Anyone can teach a snatch or a C&J as it is, regardless of what Crossfit says or does. Even in Crossfit, there is a huge problem with poor instruction and bad programming (check the injuries section for proof). There are many types of gyms out there that had been doing stuff like Crossfit long before Crossfit popularized it (I know we did similar workouts in skiing dry land practice in the mid-90's). You yourself admit that the training you got about Olympic lifts came from a weightlifter, not from Crossfit. There's little in the exercises or programming that can really set Crossfit apart from the similar programs (not enough to be legally actionable in any way).
Crossfit will need to separate themselves from the wannabes. As it stands, Crossfit isn't doing it with the quality of instruction. While we all know that their are good Crossfit trainers and boxes, but more and more seem to be going it alone, having realized that their own reputation they have built is more valuable than the Crossfit brand, without the negative stigma.
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Old 07-19-2012, 08:15 PM   #18
Drew Nadeau
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Re: EU affiliates against CROSSGYM

What's their chances of winning? Any court hearings go on for it yet?
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Old 07-19-2012, 08:19 PM   #19
Shawn Bellon
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Re: EU affiliates against CROSSGYM

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Originally Posted by Pearse Shields View Post
To be fair, the Level 1 cert done over one weekend doesn't guarantee good coaching ability or quality. Just my 2 cents on the issue.
Good point. In this case cant it be said that CrossFit is just trying to make money? It really is not responsbile certifying for quality imo.

I personally do not like that CrossFit does act like they invented or reinvented many exercise methodologies. They have their own organization and structure with great marketing etc. I am a big fan. But orginal? That is debatable.

So can someone not have a Crosstraining gym? Seems silly. I have seen Christian shirts that say "Are you Cross fit?"
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Old 07-19-2012, 08:20 PM   #20
Shawn Bellon
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Re: EU affiliates against CROSSGYM

Did Pepsi 1 or Coke Zero have this type of issues?
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