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Old 03-08-2006, 12:33 AM   #1
Tony Ferous
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Acne

Any suggestions for adult facial acne? I feel that acne must be diet related, I'm in good shape(~8% bodyfat), my diet has always been very tight, either paleo or paleo with some oats; fish oil, some supplements(occasionally I do whey protein for a few weeks at a time).

One enduring theme to my dietary habit has always been a high protein base - 30-40 of protein, ~4 times daily, as I train with weights 4 times weekly, I'm not looking to lose weight. I'm thinking the unthinkable - lowering my protein intake!

Anyone familiar with the www.waisays.com site?
It seems slightly crack-pot, but its very interesting.
It suggest's that cooked(ie damaged/maillard reaction) proteins are to blame, and thus to eat protein solely from raw egg yolks and raw tuna, a maximum of 100g per day plus olive oil and lots of fruit. - no grains(cause consitpation apparently due to beta-carbolines?), no dairy(opioids therein causing constipation), no legumes, lots raw fruit.

Also, anyone know of any valid allergy tests with scientific backup?

Other Ideas?


Thanks!
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Old 03-08-2006, 06:01 AM   #2
Steve Liberati
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I don't think diet is to blame. Although some foods aggravate breakouts, they are certainly not the root of the cause.

I also found dermatologists to be a complete waste of time and money. Most only want to control the problem so you keep coming back for more business.

I took all the antibiotics and creams in the book. Some worked better than others. Up until recently I started taking low-doses of Accutane (10 mgs a day). I'm about 3 weeks into and so far so good. I haven't had one new pimple, blemish or anything since I started taking it. My skin is starting to make a remarkable change I can already see it.

If you exhausted all your options, I would look into going this route. Do TONS of research though. Accutane is a harsh drug on your system.

good luck
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Old 03-08-2006, 06:35 AM   #3
Chris Forbis
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I did Accutane several years ago... the stuff works. That was prescribed from my doctor. The dermatologist I saw did just as Steve described and only sought to "control the problem."

I still get some acne on my back, and it tends flare up when my recovery (diet, sleep) has been poor.
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Old 03-08-2006, 08:47 AM   #4
Garrett Smith
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Tony,
In my world, acne is extremely correlated with diet. Very few people are willing to sacrifice their favorite foods and be very strict about it, for something as non-life-threatening as acne.

The gastrointestinal system is a hollow tube that inverts itself at the mouth and anus to become the skin. The skin then, is a reflection of what's going on inside your GI tract.

Acne drugs tend to drastically and relatively harshly modify the environment of the gut. Long term antibiotics aren't a good idea at all to me, and Accutane just doesn't sound good at all: http://www.naturalessentials.com/accutane.htm .

The no dairy (this includes whey)/legumes/grains (this includes oats) is a great place to start. Eggs are implicated so often in skin disorders (clinically) it's not even funny.

I can provide you with the means to take a food hypersensitivity test if you wish. The less expensive route is to do an elimination diet--this must be done religiously and completely for a while (1-2 months) to truly know what the effects will be. The company I do my food hypersensitivity tests through offers a full money-back guarantee if your overall symptoms don't improve, no questions asked.

Note that the basic Paleo diet of meat, nuts, seeds, fruits, and vegetables is nearly void of all the supposed "offending foods" from that website. Dairy, grains, legumes and eggs (especially the eggs produced and cooked on a mass scale today) are pretty non-Paleo.

Enough to make sense to me, take it as you will.

(Message edited by guerilastrength on March 08, 2006)
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Old 03-08-2006, 10:14 AM   #5
Bryan McWilliams
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Couple thoughts

- Accutane: yes there are documented side effects. However the site that Garrett references is hardly unbiased. They sell an acne cure that has "been used in Europe for 50 years" I have a little trouble with this. If it's so great, why hasn't a US entrepeneur jumped on the product much sooner. And I don't buy the great US drug company profit conspiracy.

- Acne is caused by bacteria. Certainly a good diet will help, but the root cuase of acne is sub-dermal bacteria and excess sebum that cause pores to plug, resulting in infection. I wonder how diet alone can eliminate these bacteria

- Unless you have suffered with severe acne, you have no idea how physically and emotionally painful it is. As a teen I had severe cystular acne all over my face back and shoulders. If I bumped my forhead, I bled. Shaving was torture.

The dermotology appointments were shear hell, and did little good. I would have thanked God for accutane.

At 49 I still carry scars on my face. I am looking into micrdermabrasion.

I beleive we should use drugs sparingly and only when truly needed. Severe acne is one such case. mange your drug use, watch for side effects. But to me this is a case where the potential good makes it worth being aware of and managing the downside.

And yes..you should eat a good diet!
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Old 03-08-2006, 10:57 AM   #6
Neal Winkler
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Cordain is about to reveal a book where he claims to have the cure for acne. I wonder what it will be? Just eat paleo? I eat paleo and I still have a greasy face and get zits now and then, though I think they may have ceased slightly from pre-paleo.
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Old 03-08-2006, 11:20 AM   #7
Garrett Smith
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Bryan,
I realized that they were selling something on that site (I really didn't care what it was). I was after the PDR description of Accutane's adverse effects.

Bacteria need a very particular environment to thrive and prosper. In microbiology labs, it takes very specific temperatures, growing mediums, pH, etc. to propagate specific bacteria. How do we "create" the environment for bacteria to grow? We are what we eat! It is as simple as that. This idea can be thoroughly expanded upon, I just don't have the time.

Bacteria and acne is a "chicken or the egg" scenario to me. If the bacteria can be found on people's skin who don't have acne, is it really the cause, or is it a symptom? Everyone has staph on their skin, yet not everyone is getting staph infections every day.

With the idea that diet plays such a huge role in so many dis-eases, we have to get into the "victim" mentality that our medical system in particular tries to create, so that the doctor and the drugs can be the "saviour". I prefer the accountability and self-responsibility model, that we are all "captains of our own ship", for better or worse.
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Old 03-08-2006, 12:08 PM   #8
Robert Wolf
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Diet is absolutely to blame:
http://www.thepaleodiet.com/articles...%20Article.pdf

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Old 03-08-2006, 12:55 PM   #9
Garrett Smith
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Nice post, Robert. I definitely need to look into Cordain's work more, I'm very appreciative that this forum has exposed me to it.
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Old 03-08-2006, 01:22 PM   #10
Bryan McWilliams
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"Diet is absolutely to blame?"

From the Cordain article:

"A substantial body of literature now exists that di-
rectly implicates diet as the most likely environmental factor
underlying the development of acne. Confirmation of the
diet-acne hypothesis will require numerous well controlled
dietary interventions examining multiple nutritional factors. "

Note a couple of things:
- Cordain says diet is the most likely environmental factor underlying.....my point (and this statement seems to support it) is that there is unlikely to be any single cause of acne

- "Confirmation of the diet-acne hypothesis " It's a HYPOTHESIS,
Cordain doesn't yet see it as a theory, let alone a proven fact.

Don't get me wrong.

Garrett, I respect what you do, and I'm sorry if I cast dispersions. I didn't mean to. You are right, the info you posted was directly from the PDR, and is useful.

My point is that diet is only one possible cause of acne. While proper diet may well create a host environment that is hostile to the development of conditions that lead to acne, NO ONE has proven that diet causes acne.

I never want to see anyone suffer like I did. While acne isn't life threatening, it is painful and potentially disfiguring. I have teenage daughters. I promised myself and them that I would do all I could to prevent their suffering as I did. I would include accutane of the situation warranted it. I am thankful that my girls' skin problems are minor.

As to the medical establishment and the drug companies...yep there is a lot to hate, and a lot to be angry about. But I for one am not going to give up on things that work, like anti-biotics.

Just recently, my thumb swelled up for no reason I could ID. The allopath diagnosed a paronetheum (common skin/nail infection) and prescribed keflex, an antibiotic.

I did not want to take the keflex, so I loaded up on anti-oxidants, and took oregano oil, which has anti-fungal and antibiotic properties. The thumb continued to swell, and was quite painful. I gave in, took the keflex, and the problem cleared up. I should not have waited so long to take the keflex.

Antibiotics and other drugs have saved many lives and are appropriate at times. I have no affiliation with the drug industry, but I do feel that the industry is overly demonized at times.

I have a good friend who has been HIV + for 13 + years. She had a partner that was heomphiliac, before we knew that heomophila is a vector.

Cindy (and her daughter, who was of course born with HIV) are long term non-progessors, and most people don't even know that they have HIV.

Cindy credits her medicines, and an extraordinary doc from Duke with her great quality of life. Her doc has given his life to AIDS research and spends most of each year in huts in Africa, doing his work. He is one of the most unselfish people I know.

Sorry to hijack the thread. While there is much wrong with our medical system, there are good people that have dedicated their lives to understanding did-ease, and working to cure/ease it.

We need to keep that in mind.
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