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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 09-12-2009, 11:41 AM   #41
Justin Lascek
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Re: CrossFit Wichita Falls Programming

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Originally Posted by Robert Beckett View Post
So, if I were to stall out on the linear progression of the CFWF program, I could drop the metcons & go with strict Starting Strength and thereby further increase strength w/ a linear progression?
This leads me to believe that strength is a primarily goal. If that is the case, then why not gain the strength in the shortest amount of time instead of prolonging it?

But, as always, this depends on what your goals are. Depending on what they are, the answer to this question may be moot.
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Old 09-12-2009, 11:47 AM   #42
Justin Lascek
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Re: CrossFit Wichita Falls Programming

Thanks for the kind words earlier, Blair.

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Originally Posted by Blair Robert Lowe View Post
It probably also is less volume than CFSB which is why CFSB is not a beginner/intermediate program. A body needs some workout capacity before heading into CFSB.
I don't think these terms are very clearly defined. Beginner and intermediate of what? It would be incorrect to say that the "Strength Bias" program is set up for advanced strength trainee for obvious reasons. But, how would one quantify whether someone is beginner, intermediate, or advanced regarding adaptations to metabolic conditioning? I've thought about it a lot, done research on it, and I still don't really have a clear answer right now.
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Old 09-12-2009, 11:49 AM   #43
Ben Moskowitz
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Re: CrossFit Wichita Falls Programming

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Originally Posted by Justin Lascek View Post
Thanks for the kind words earlier, Blair.
But, how would one quantify whether someone is beginner, intermediate, or advanced regarding adaptations to metabolic conditioning?
CrossFit North Level standards on WODs like Helen, 2000m row, etc.?
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Old 09-12-2009, 01:52 PM   #44
Sean J Hunter
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Re: CrossFit Wichita Falls Programming

Speaking as a newbie here.

1) We are splitting strength programs into two categories
- Beginner Strength = Relatively simple programming to see gains
- Intermediate+ Strength = More Complex programming required to see gains

2) I do not quite understand what you are saying about the definition of Intermediate strength. You seem to be saying it's more then just how one does on Strength Benchmarking tests (1-5RM). Surely if I can reach Intermediate level Strength on all 10 Lifts I am an intermediate lifter? And I’ll soon start seeing no gains from my simple programming and need to change to a more complex program?

3) Lastly I believe it is generally agreed that this change in programming is required when one reaches 'Intermediate' level strength, is that Riptoes Intermediate or CF North’s Intermediate. (Sorry Ben you bet me to it - Cheers)

Thanks in advance

Sean

Last edited by Sean J Hunter : 09-12-2009 at 01:54 PM.
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Old 09-12-2009, 02:35 PM   #45
Blair Robert Lowe
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Re: CrossFit Wichita Falls Programming

Justin, beginner and intermediate CrossFitter. Jeff Martin and the authors of CFSB stated that CFSB was not for intermediate, at least, and advanced CrossFitters, if my memory is correct.
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Old 09-12-2009, 03:12 PM   #46
Ryan Whitley
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Re: CrossFit Wichita Falls Programming

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Originally Posted by Blair Robert Lowe View Post
Justin, beginner and intermediate CrossFitter. Jeff Martin and the authors of CFSB stated that CFSB was not for intermediate, at least, and advanced CrossFitters, if my memory is correct.
They said it was specifically for intermediate CF'ers...whatever that means.
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Old 09-12-2009, 03:20 PM   #47
Dave Winchester
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Re: CrossFit Wichita Falls Programming

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Originally Posted by Ryan Whitley View Post
They said it was specifically for intermediate CF'ers...whatever that means.
I understood it to mean,
  • A person who's strength progress on the lifting days had stalled/slowed but remained a weakness in metcons
  • Had enough experience to bring full intensity to the workouts
  • Had enough proficiency in the strength movements where technique wouldn't be a limiting factor

Whether they had some numerical metric, I'm not sure, but that's what I got from reading pages 2-3 of the article.
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Old 09-12-2009, 03:28 PM   #48
Sean J Hunter
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Re: CrossFit Wichita Falls Programming

I'm with Ryan,

My understanding is that CF-SB was for intermediate lifters+

Mind you I went from Beginner Strength to intermediate on CF-SB, but I had been at Intermediate Strength before but had lost it after years of neglect; Muscle Memory perhaps.

Isn't it fair to say that essentially Beginner programs are linear and are watching for injuries caused by weakness and bad form where as intermediate programs need to periodize to combat adaptation.

That may be an over simplification perhaps?

Sean
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Old 09-12-2009, 04:07 PM   #49
Justin Lascek
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Re: CrossFit Wichita Falls Programming

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Originally Posted by Ben Moskowitz View Post
CrossFit North Level standards on WODs like Helen, 2000m row, etc.?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blair Robert Lowe View Post
Justin, beginner and intermediate CrossFitter. Jeff Martin and the authors of CFSB stated that CFSB was not for intermediate, at least, and advanced CrossFitters, if my memory is correct.
I get what they are trying to say in the article. But do you realize how vague the term "Beginner CrossFitter" actually is regarding biological and physiological adaptation? How does a "Helen" time define how one adapts to stress? It gives no insight into the biological process of stress --> recovery --> adaptation.

Within strength training, these terms (novice, intermediate, intensity, etc.) are clearly defined. However, the same terms applied to metabolic conditioning don't maintain the same clarity because they have not been defined.
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Old 09-12-2009, 04:25 PM   #50
Justin Lascek
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Re: CrossFit Wichita Falls Programming

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Originally Posted by Sean J Hunter View Post

2) I do not quite understand what you are saying about the definition of Intermediate strength. You seem to be saying it's more then just how one does on Strength Benchmarking tests (1-5RM). Surely if I can reach Intermediate level Strength on all 10 Lifts I am an intermediate lifter? And Iíll soon start seeing no gains from my simple programming and need to change to a more complex program?

3) Lastly I believe it is generally agreed that this change in programming is required when one reaches 'Intermediate' level strength, is that Riptoes Intermediate or CF Northís Intermediate. (Sorry Ben you bet me to it - Cheers)

Thanks in advance

Sean


Hey Sean,

2. An intermediate strength trainee has very specific variables that are quantified. They cannot adapt to stress on a daily basis because the amount of stress that they can incur is higher relative to their hypothetical genetic potential, thus their program allows them to adapt on a daily basis. So you see, there is no level or weight requirement to get to this point. The weight on the bar is irrelevant. It is entirely dependent on how that individual adapts to stress.

3. I never said a change in programming wasn't required. I'm saying that the distinction of calling someone "intermediate" is entirely blurred because no one is defining this term.

We may be able to call someone in the CF Wichita Falls program intermediate, assuming they don't have any ancillary aspects of recovery that are limiting their adaptation of strength. However, if we did call someone in such a scenario an "intermediate", it would only apply to the CF Wichita Falls program. It would not apply to the "Strength Bias", or any other variation because the definition changes since the stress and adaptation processes are different.

The problem with the terms isn't the program, it's that we are mixing different types of adaptations. I've mentioned a few times that I (or others) don't know how to quantify an adaptation to metabolic conditioning. This gets even more complicated since metabolic conditioning's adaptations consist of a collection of adaptations together (or, you could think of it in terms of GPP -- working on more than one physical quality). So trying to make a blanket statement about someone's adaptations when we don't really have a solid way to define it isn't very useful.
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