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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 03-25-2009, 06:26 PM   #11
Scott Spencer
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Re: "Wild" Fitness Article

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKGF-ErsJiI
wfs

video of movnat

i say its Parkour in the jungle with no shoes.
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Old 03-25-2009, 06:32 PM   #12
Christian Gotcher
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Re: "Wild" Fitness Article

Certainly, David, I doubt most Crossfitters would agree with him on all points. Using barbells and other such 'structured' tools, so long as they did not therefore define your program, give you a measure of safety while developing the necessary strength to complete the more 'natural' movements. If the author was not already fit before writing the article, this training could very well have seriously injured him.

Insofar as the competition, Erwan may not officially make it a part of his training, but any time two people express high intensity, you will get elements of competition. The chase, which this article starts out with, is one of the most natural things we do socially as children, and it's fundamentally competitive. So is the atmosphere of friendly intimidation. If the author didn't care about keeping up with Erwan in his process through the run, he would not have performed and would not have grown from the experience. It may not be on a scoreboard, but it's scored by ability- Zuqueto can't climb the pole and Erwan can. No value is assigned to a 'winner' or 'loser' as everyone is developing, but everyone knows who wins in the chase. Everybody knows if you drop the rock in the circle, or if you don't catch the stick. The author's urge not to embarrass himself in front of the others is another form of competition.

If it's guaranteed to be there- you might as well embrace it.
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Old 03-25-2009, 06:42 PM   #13
David Meverden
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Re: "Wild" Fitness Article

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Originally Posted by Rafe Kelley View Post
I think we might disagree on its total importance of the running, climbing swinging stuff but that is fine. One thing important to understand about movnat or its forefather methode naturelle is that its not just bodyweight training or a cardio scheme as the article implies, weight lifting, carrying, throwing and catching are all important elements and the unique challenges offered by rocks, logs and human bodies in accomplishing these tasks are developmental in my opinion of type of functional capacity that barbell, dumbbells, and kettlebells can't completely replace. Not that I don't like working with those tools I think the infinite scalability and simpleness to use of barbells and dumbbells tools makes them incredible useful for linear strength training , and kettlebells are just tremendous fun. Still I think the amount of people who are not spending enough time lifting weights cause their too busy climbing trees and throwing rocks around is probably very few and its not imbalance that needs to be corrected. Were as I think far too few people are getting out and experiencing and adapting to the challenges of movement in the world outside the gym.
Well said. I do think that barbells, linear progression, and precise loading are crucial tools, but then you need to be able to apply that capacity to the world outside the gym. And you won't be able to do that optimally if you never get out.
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Old 03-25-2009, 07:57 PM   #14
Damon Stewart
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Re: "Wild" Fitness Article

I know I've always had the urge to chuck a spear as far as I can...
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Old 03-25-2009, 07:59 PM   #15
Scot Brown
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Re: "Wild" Fitness Article

All of this from a website that is entirely focused on aesthetics.

But yes, we would all do well to remember that Crossfit is not the final word on fitness. It is merely a tool, and is only as useful as the results it produces.
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Old 03-25-2009, 08:00 PM   #16
Gabriel Goodwin
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Re: "Wild" Fitness Article

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Originally Posted by Damon Stewart View Post
I know I've always had the urge to chuck a spear as far as I can...
Who hasn't?
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Old 03-25-2009, 08:34 PM   #17
Phillip Garrison
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Re: "Wild" Fitness Article

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Originally Posted by Christian Gotcher View Post
http://www.menshealth.com/cda/articl...eac____&page=1 (wfs)

It's a fascinating approach to fitness, something that combines many of the elements of fitness we usually consider as being attached to CrossFit and Parkour. "Being fit isn't about being able to lift a steel bar or finish an Ironman." That's a powerful statement, one with considerable application for us.

Sometimes, in our programming, we get locked into modes no less powerfully than a globo-goer. The leg extension machine is step A. Perhaps the barbell is the next step towards the 'real-life' experience CrossFit is meant to prepare people for. Then, perhaps, the kettlebell and dumbbell, the sandbag and the rock. Then people, maybe?

And what about places? Can we do Fran with a heavy sandbag and a rock ledge? Can you do a MU on an overarching lightpost? Can you walk your hands sideways along a wall or hold a handstand freestanding? As much as I need the structure of the gym environment sometimes, I think the article does a good job of demonstrating how even the most 'functional' exercises are still not quite there. There's always some way to get closer to your end goal.
This is why I say fitness can't be neatly narrowed down to a power/time graph.
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Old 03-25-2009, 08:36 PM   #18
Phillip Garrison
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Re: "Wild" Fitness Article

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Originally Posted by Scot Brown View Post
All of this from a website that is entirely focused on aesthetics.

But yes, we would all do well to remember that CrossFit is not the final word on fitness. It is merely a tool, and is only as useful as the results it produces.
Actually of all the commercial Magazine, Men's Health has the best articles. They do a lot of different kinds of articles, and don't push supplements like Weider mags do
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Old 03-26-2009, 12:51 AM   #19
Rafe Kelley
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Re: "Wild" Fitness Article

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Spencer View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKGF-ErsJiI
wfs

video of movnat

i say its Parkour in the jungle with no shoes.
Running is running, jumping is jumping true, but the way you train in it the purpose behind it is what defines it. I train parkour and MovNat, I have trained parkour barefoot in the woods often. Its still parkour. The goal of parkour the point of the trianing is to develop the capacity to move over obstacles of all kinds as effectively as possible using only the human body. A movnat training sessions is not based around that goal traceurs do not combine running jumping climbing routes, with repeated rock carries, or sparring sessions in movnat you do because the goal is different instead of refining only the feild of locomotive ability MovNat is about rehabilitating the entire spectrum of natural human movement capabalities.
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Old 03-26-2009, 06:05 AM   #20
Brian Stone
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Re: "Wild" Fitness Article

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian Gotcher View Post
If the author was not already fit before writing the article, this training could very well have seriously injured him.

Insofar as the competition, Erwan may not officially make it a part of his training, but any time two people express high intensity, you will get elements of competition. The chase, which this article starts out with, is one of the most natural things we do socially as children, and it's fundamentally competitive. So is the atmosphere of friendly intimidation. If the author didn't care about keeping up with Erwan in his process through the run, he would not have performed and would not have grown from the experience. It may not be on a scoreboard, but it's scored by ability- Zuqueto can't climb the pole and Erwan can. No value is assigned to a 'winner' or 'loser' as everyone is developing, but everyone knows who wins in the chase. Everybody knows if you drop the rock in the circle, or if you don't catch the stick. The author's urge not to embarrass himself in front of the others is another form of competition.
These are both excellent points. I thought the same thing when reading the article. An effort to eschew "competition" is a fantasy in just about any endeavor.


I think these movements are an invaluable type of barometer of "unknowable" fitness. I think this type of stuff would fit extremely well into at least part of the CF Games. Although the games may be random to a degree, they are by no means the "unknowable" since they are some combination of movements with which the athletes are all intensely familiar and comfortable. Lifting odd shaped rocks, digging a 6 foot hole for time, etc. are all types of things to which the average CF'er is not "programmed" and would entail an extremely interesting challenge, IMV.
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