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Old 01-08-2009, 05:39 AM   #1
Mike Gore
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Andropause (Male Menopause)

Does anyone out there have information on how to deal with Andropause...for those unaware it happens only in men and starts in their early thirties, the long and short your testosterone level goes for a crap, it affects you in so many ways there is too many to list...check it out on the internet. Could not understand with the Zone and Crossfit for the last two years nothing was changing.

I have started HRT (hormone replacement therapy) but looking for any other suggestions as my workouts are still not where they should be at this point. I have been doing HRT for the last four months...I feel better for a while then it drops off as the level is not significant enough for my body. The doctor who I go to says that I will be trying another form soon if my current method does not improve. There are significant health risks associated with this as well.

There are more and more shift workers and men in general who suffer from this. I am not sure if there is any other way to improve this naturally or if I am going to continue on HRT for the rest of my life. For the experts out there any assistance who be much appreciated. I have no interest going back to my old life as it sucked before I was getting treated with HRT. Any responsed send to gores@live.ca

Thanks
Mike
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Old 01-08-2009, 01:56 PM   #2
Sara Fleming
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Re: Andropause (Male Menopause)

Are you being treated by an endrocrinologist?

Sorry if that sounds like a stupid question. But, I am going through personal hell myself by not seeing the right specialist right away.

I recently had my half my thyroid taken out by an ENT (it had a tumor so there was actually a reason) and I've had two other doctors tell me my thyroid numbers were in the normal range, but now that I've had a headache for SIX MONTHS, my neurologist has finally suggested I see an endocrinologist because he says my thyroid numbers are not normal and are probably the cause of my migraines. (no medical or family history of migraines).

My point is, an endocrinologist is the best person to be treating hormonal disorders, no one else. And trust me, I should know better, I'm married to a doctor, I'm a biochemist, most of our friends are doctors and/or research scientists/nurses. But, we let other people assure us that they knew what they were talking about.

If you take HRT when you don't need it, your body stops producing its own testosterone and you make it worse. Again, I don't know who diagnosed you and who is treating you so I apologize if I am speaking ignorantly, but I do feel for your situation, it sounds very frustrating.

Sara
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Old 01-08-2009, 02:52 PM   #3
Mike Gore
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Re: Andropause (Male Menopause)

Sara

Thanks for the information. I am currently seeing a doctor but not sure if he is an endrocinologist but I am seeing my family physician tomorrow and will mention that to her...did not realize about the other things you mentioned as well. My wife has a thyroid issue as well and what is the normal range in clinical terms does not work for her.

I found the HRT works for a little while than drops off so it sucks...feels like workouts take forever, did Murph today with the twenty pound vest for both the run parts and took me fifty eight minutes...that is terrible, may have something to do with the fact that I am six feet two forty but who knows.

I will definately mention this to my doctor, thanks for the help.

Mike
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Old 01-09-2009, 01:10 AM   #4
Frank E Morel
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Re: Andropause (Male Menopause)

okay mike I was going to take a hiatus from posting in medical for awhile but I couldnt.

Mike... its rather important that you know what kind of doctor is treating your health. Its like taking your mercedes to a mechanic that works on motorcycles. They all have the basic behind them but its the breathe of knowledge in certain areas that are important.

If they knew everything there is to know, then they wouldnt be kicking out referrals.
Sara is correct in saying the endocrinologist is person to see.. some urologists that specialize in men's health issues that include your issue is appropriate as well, it boils down to clinical focus, the sub speciality and clinical interest. meaning the endo guy maybe the master of all problems hormonal but maybe only deals with thyroid disorders and has an interest in children thyroid disorders. And really doesnt grasp the issues of andropause or even believe in it. You have to ask the md, what is their experience is with dealing with your problem. If they say, its okay, I have seen this before, then ask them how current is their knowledge.

Mike your a consumer of health care, you pay good money for that healthcare.. but you need to be in the know of who and what is taking care of you.


Now, your replacement... are you taking weekly replacements or the once every two weeks injection??? or your doing the cream/patch route?
As the routes are important, and how are your levels doing? you getting your bloodwork done?
And remember, more test in your system .. means more caloric burn is happening do the refiring of your metabolism... you maybe are under nourished for your present state.. and need to eat more. In your case, fat is not really going to be that helpful.. protein will be.
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Last edited by Frank E Morel : 01-09-2009 at 01:19 AM.
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Old 01-09-2009, 07:57 AM   #5
Mike Gore
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Re: Andropause (Male Menopause)

Frank

Thank you for the suggestions. The person I have been seeing is an MD but has taken a huge interest in Andropause for men and men's health. I have other friends seeing this MD due to his interest in Andropause and treating them as well.

I started with HCG because to increase my own levels as my wife wanted another child. My wife is now 5 months pregnant so the concern with the decrease in testosterone and not having a second child is taking care. I then lasted on that for about six weeks before I noticed a change back to my old ways and behaviour again.

I then started second with the gel and hated that because of how it dried out my hands so much and was then switched to Andriol and started with 240mg a day...throughout this I have had my TT taken. After a month at the 240mg of Andriol my levels never moved. The doctor said try 320mg a day for another month and today I go for another TT test. But I will tell you now that it has done nothing as I have gained weight around my middle again, probably 15 pounds, my sleep is off again and getting tired in the afternoon again and workouts are suffering tremondously.

I have an appointement with my family MD today, looking for something different as the next step from the other MD who treats Andropause was talking about injections. I don't know if a cream would be better than injections but I know I can't go back living the way I did for the past three years.

The only other thing I am not understanding as I am not a biology person by any stretch is about he protein versus fat. I follow the Zone and weigh and measure my food. I am trying to eat around 18 to 19 blocks a day as I was trying to cut weight a little more from 225 down to around 215 before I balloned back up again.

So any advice about the amount of blocks I should be eating on the zone for this type of situation would be more than appreciative...especially for someone who understands training in Crossfit. I also work shifts as well.

Frank I thank you and Sara for the responses, I was hoping and knew that someone out in Crossfit land would be able to help out.

Sincerely Mike
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Old 01-09-2009, 10:37 AM   #6
Mike Neill
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Re: Andropause (Male Menopause)

Oral andriol!? As steroid therapy goes, oral andriol is state-of-the-art 1960. It's also tough on the liver. There are better choices but in any case you ought to drop the idea of taking a pill. Steroid metabolism is such that the forms that can be taken orally have some bad side effects and are not very effective (as you have learned).

Get a blood test for your liver values. After enough andriol your liver could be out of whack. The good news is that your liver will recover after you stop the orals. Don't drink alcohol while you're on an oral steroid. The liver will be stressed enough with the steroid, it doesn't need alcohol to deal with too.

Last edited by Mike Neill : 01-09-2009 at 10:58 AM.
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Old 01-09-2009, 10:50 AM   #7
Mike Neill
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Re: Andropause (Male Menopause)

If you don't dig the gel, your only other viable option is intramuscular injection with an oil-based testosterone ester like (but not limited to) testosterone cypionate or test. enthanate. What you actually need depends on variables to be determined by a knowledgeable person but it would work out to be something like a 1cc injection weekly or maybe biweekly. As a general rule, with some exceptions, injectable steroids do not have the hepatotoxicity orals do.

Last edited by Mike Neill : 01-09-2009 at 10:54 AM.
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Old 01-09-2009, 11:20 AM   #8
Mike Gore
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Re: Andropause (Male Menopause)

Mike

Thanks...don't think I will be taking andriol much longer as my body does not even seem to be absorbing it that much. Waiting for the results from my TT that was done today and my family physician is sending me for some other tests to be done as well.

Was also told that the symptoms that I have used to describe how I feel is depression and not andropause. According to my blood results my testosterone levels show in the normal range but I don't believe they are normal for me like any scale it is a scale used for guidance.

Looking for info about higher protein versus lower fat as mentioned by Mike earlier, still trying to figure out what is the best way I should be following the Zone for my particular situation.

Thanks
Mike
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Old 01-09-2009, 12:41 PM   #9
Frank E Morel
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Re: Andropause (Male Menopause)

mike....

I have to agree with the earily post about andriol ... its sub optimal and has a decent amount adverse effect with it. And it kinda confirms my thoughts about the md. Btw ... did he ever tried to figure why your levels tanked? Thirties is not quite the numbers for andropause, its usually the start point for the decline unless you were low to begin with and started your decline.

But type and delivery methods are more or less chosen for how close to normal you are on your levels. Gels work but are slow in their onset and usually have degree of unpredictability how well it works.
the patch... works, just works slower.
injections are good, but have their only gambit of problems that are associated with life long administration. With bloodwork you should be able to find the right dosing for you to stay optimal.

Oh.. since your on hgh and test as well, Shouldnt have you been on Luteinizing hormone as well to keep your teste function open and to prevent them from shutting down their natural function as well?


Regarding diet.. just dump the zone for a while and just eat and see how you feel.
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Old 01-09-2009, 04:08 PM   #10
Mike Gore
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Re: Andropause (Male Menopause)

Frank

Thanks again...looking at blood type eating right now to see if that makes any improvements as well, going to take things slow and re-evaluate to figure what is the best course of action for me. Thanks

Mike
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