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Old 09-20-2007, 12:20 PM   #11
Brandon Oto
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Re: Sub-7:00 2K row

Sorry Joel, not giving you grief. I'm honestly curious where the number came from; certainly a sub-7:00 row (especially for a non-rower) is excellent, but it seems a little arbitrary. I was wondering if any of the rowing folks knew some of the reasoning.
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Old 09-20-2007, 12:34 PM   #12
Joel Chapman
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Re: Sub-7:00 2K row

Bryan,

I do happen to have an account on the Concept2 site, and I currently am 332 out of 2051 heavyweight males for about 84th percentile.

To everyone,

I originally posted this because I often read the testimonials and gain new ideas and motivation. It is interesting to see what people with similar training philosophies can accomplish. It often gives me new direction as far as shorter-term training goals. As an example, Anthony B just pulled a crazy 500M time, and I am thinking about that as a new direction now.

I get the feeling (perhaps incorrectly) that Brandon thought I was looking for a pat on the back, or some type of approval. I am not.
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Old 09-20-2007, 12:37 PM   #13
Joel Chapman
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Re: Sub-7:00 2K row

Brandon,

You must have replied as I was typing my last post. I understand now what you meant by your post. It is often hard to infer meaning from typed words. No hard feelings.
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Old 09-20-2007, 01:28 PM   #14
James Reynolds
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Re: Sub-7:00 2K row

That's impressive, Joel! I'm working on getting to sub 8 still
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Old 09-20-2007, 05:11 PM   #15
Tom Ellison
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Re: Sub-7:00 2K row

That's awesome, and I think serves to exemplify crossfit's goals. If you can put up "respectable" numbers in many different sports, you will be more fit in a general sense than any elite sport-specific athlete.

As for 7 minutes being arbitrary, I'd say it's no more arbitrary than the importance we place on a 5-minute mile, a 3 minute Fran, a 2x bodyweight DL, etc. We usually round to the nearest round number like that, doesn't diminish the accomplishment.
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Old 09-20-2007, 07:04 PM   #16
Brandon Oto
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Re: Sub-7:00 2K row

Tom, I find those numbers interesting as well, though. Put simply, all such numbers are relative; to establish a "good" target for, say, a deadlift means one thing to a competitive powerlifter and another thing entirely to a first-time CFing female. The 7:00 number comes from rowers -- not the top of the pack, but one of their internal litmus tests. Okay. A 3 or 4 minute Fran, well, that's exclusively ours, and reflects the top 5%, say, of serious CrossFitters. A 2x bodyweight deadlift, where does that fall? Nothing to a powerlifter, maybe a 1-2 year goal for a new lifter, and probably a good baseline for a CFer trying to do the workouts as rx'd, yeah?

This making any sense? It kinda seems like we should be careful where we draw our goals from, even if they're more or less arbitrary. If you use it properly, a goal is a powerful thing. For instance, if I hit a 7:00 2k, I wouldn't be surprised to check again in a few months and see that I was still at about 7:00. I won't be pounding the erg for a faster time to break that barrier anymore. So it kinda does matter where we throw these lines, even if we want to think that we'll just keep shooting for the moon regardless. This may be more relevant for something like rowing, which takes some dedicated training to really master, versus something like the deadlift, which at early to intermediate levels you'll probably keep seeing gains in merely from the prescribed WoDs without any extra work on your part.

Partially because of the many disciplines that CF draws from, we seem to pull numbers from a lot of different levels, and it seems a little weird to me...

Not sure if this is clear, it's only partially so to me. Probably not the right thread to muse on it. Nice row, though, Joel
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Old 09-20-2007, 07:10 PM   #17
Joel Chapman
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Cool Re: Sub-7:00 2K row

Brandon,

Would it make you feel better if I had named the thread "6:58.0 2K row?"
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Old 09-20-2007, 07:48 PM   #18
Tom Ellison
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Re: Sub-7:00 2K row

I see your point that some of those benchmark times are somewhat arbitrary. Maybe the Fran example wasn't very good, because a 3-4 minute Fran is pretty elite in the CF community. I just meant to say that we use a lot of benchmarks that wouldn't bat much of an eyelash in their specific sports. If I was a college track runner, and had a 60 second 400m time, that is probably merely "competent". I was merely pointing out that shooting for "respectable" abilities in many, often antagonistic, fields is one of the beauties of Crossfit's programming. I was thinking of things like a 2x BW deadlift or squat, a 5 minute mile, a 20 minute 5k, a 7 minute 2k row, a 10 handstand pushups, etc. None of those things would be seen as remarkable in their specific fields, but when one person can do all those things they are very fit in a general, balanced sense. But I agree that we have to be careful about what benchmarks we pick. We don't want our goals to be things like "a 9 minute mile and a 3x BW squat", because those aren't at the same level in their respective fields.
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Old 09-20-2007, 09:07 PM   #19
James Reynolds
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Re: Sub-7:00 2K row

Maybe Brandon is just mad because his best 2k row, taken directly from his site, is as follows:
Quote:
Rowing:
2000m: 8:41
:stir: :stir:



Anyway, all kidding aside, I've been reading the C2 site to learn better technique, which I am sure will help.
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Old 09-21-2007, 05:40 AM   #20
Brandon Oto
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Re: Sub-7:00 2K row

Cute, James

Tom, maybe the best answer is to have tiered goals, such as we see in Rippetoe's strength standards or the CFN rankings, and try to ensure that the goals at each level are at more or less equivalent degrees. I dunno. I'll think on it, maybe I'll have something more interesting to say another time.
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