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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 09-19-2010, 04:56 PM   #31
Ryan Blake
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Re: Military says You’re Too Flabby For CrossFit

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Originally Posted by Mike Wright View Post
I find the "bandwidth" comment insulting. Then again, I am MIL, so it very well could be my lack of bandwidth preventing my understanding.
No **** huh?

This was a good comment too-"Culturally speaking, the intelligence and thoughtfulness are simply not present in the military to allow a mass implementation of CrossFit. It requires too much mental flexibility, attention to detail, and patience -- gifts which I will just say lie beyond the reach of many who serve."

I was introduced to CF by the military in 2003 at my first duty station. Like many have pointed out boot camp is not the military, it gets you a seat at the table to attend further training. It always amazes me that many of the folks who are quick to jump in the military threads have no first hand info. (I know the quote was from someone AD)
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Old 09-19-2010, 05:03 PM   #32
Eric Montgomery
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Re: Military says You’re Too Flabby For CrossFit

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No, you got exactly the same thing I stated, and then you misread it. 7,228 attacks is not opposed to the numbers I gave as wounded or killed.

Not every attack = a killed or wounded person.
Do you have a source for your initial stat that only 95 out of the 1,188 American deaths in Afghanistan thus far have been from IEDs? That sounds unbelievably low, seeing how a majority of the fatality reports I see in the Marine Corps Times every week list explosion rather than small arms fire as the cause.
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Old 09-19-2010, 05:08 PM   #33
Shane Atkinson
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Re: Military says You’re Too Flabby For CrossFit

For the IED debate, try this link: http://icasualties.org/oef/ (WFS)
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Old 09-19-2010, 05:39 PM   #34
Katherine Derbyshire
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Cool Re: Military says You’re Too Flabby For CrossFit

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Originally Posted by Mike Wright View Post
I find the "bandwidth" comment insulting. Then again, I am MIL, so it very well could be my lack of bandwidth preventing my understanding.
Sorry, it wasn't meant to be. In this context, "lack of bandwidth" refers to someone who has too many other tasks to worry about, not to someone lacking in raw mental capacity. A surgeon in the middle of an operation doesn't have the bandwidth to make sure the patient keeps breathing -- that's the anesthesiologist's job. It's not that the surgeon is dumb, just that he's busy.

Katherine
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Old 09-19-2010, 05:45 PM   #35
Rob St. Croix
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Re: Military says You’re Too Flabby For CrossFit

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Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
Sorry, it wasn't meant to be. In this context, "lack of bandwidth" refers to someone who has too many other tasks to worry about, not to someone lacking in raw mental capacity. A surgeon in the middle of an operation doesn't have the bandwidth to make sure the patient keeps breathing -- that's the anesthesiologist's job. It's not that the surgeon is dumb, just that he's busy.

Katherine
In the circles I operate, we refer to that as someone being, "Task Saturated."

Also, the term "Military" as it is used in the article is so broad a term. Each service is distinct in its methods for initial training and in their minimum entry requirements for physical fitness. The Corps has been using a CF like system for decades... we call it the "Pit" and the "quarterdeck."
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Last edited by Rob St. Croix : 09-19-2010 at 05:53 PM.
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Old 09-19-2010, 06:01 PM   #36
Rob St. Croix
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Re: Military says You’re Too Flabby For CrossFit

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The Corps has been using a CF like system for decades... we call it the "Pit" and the "quarterdeck."
The catch is, unlike a WOD, you don't know what you are doing or for how long you'll be doing it, you just know its going to suck.
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Old 09-19-2010, 11:29 PM   #37
Joseph E. Morris
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Re: Military says You’re Too Flabby For CrossFit

Really, you disagree? I've tried implementing simple CF-style workouts, as mentioned. Even getting someone to air squat below parallel is like pulling teeth. The guy in charge of the base gym I use informed me that the problem with CrossFit is that it only "works one or two body parts per workout." I could go on with more examples. As Rob noted, the only guarantee about unit PT in the MC is unpleasantness. Even at a small unit level there is rarely intelligent, goal-oriented programming other than maybe for the PFT or CFT.

I'm gonna go with what Katherine said and agree, but add that it's also stupidity. Not because there aren't extremely talented, conscientious people in the military, but because there are so many who are not. Given the inherent risks, effective CrossFit requires a population of coaches who are talented and conscientious. I just don't see that population being extensive enough for broad implementation Corps-wide. I don't see it as likely that we're going to convince the broader population that metabolic conditioning is superior to "cardio" or "arms day" -- or even that men should practice gymnastics. Hell, teaching people nutrition alone would end military chow halls and MREs as they are.

But understand that I'm very against unit PT anyway; I think it's too cumbersome and one-size-fits-none. CrossFit is too challenging -- physically and mentally -- for someone to be forced to do it, generally.


Rick
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Old 09-20-2010, 05:56 AM   #38
Daniel Higgins
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Re: Military says You’re Too Flabby For CrossFit

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Originally Posted by Joseph E. Morris View Post
Really, you disagree? I've tried implementing simple CF-style workouts, as mentioned. Even getting someone to air squat below parallel is like pulling teeth. The guy in charge of the base gym I use informed me that the problem with CrossFit is that it only "works one or two body parts per workout." I could go on with more examples. As Rob noted, the only guarantee about unit PT in the MC is unpleasantness. Even at a small unit level there is rarely intelligent, goal-oriented programming other than maybe for the PFT or CFT.

I'm gonna go with what Katherine said and agree, but add that it's also stupidity. Not because there aren't extremely talented, conscientious people in the military, but because there are so many who are not. Given the inherent risks, effective CrossFit requires a population of coaches who are talented and conscientious. I just don't see that population being extensive enough for broad implementation Corps-wide. I don't see it as likely that we're going to convince the broader population that metabolic conditioning is superior to "cardio" or "arms day" -- or even that men should practice gymnastics. Hell, teaching people nutrition alone would end military chow halls and MREs as they are.

But understand that I'm very against unit PT anyway; I think it's too cumbersome and one-size-fits-none. CrossFit is too challenging -- physically and mentally -- for someone to be forced to do it, generally.


Rick
I would tend to agree with this, in my limited experience with implementing Crossfit in military training (ROTC). I volunteered to run the PT sessions and thus created weekly plans for sessions held 2x/week. My ideas were against the grain in almost every respect:
- The O-3 made statements with no scientific basis, things like "going too far on squats is bad for the knees" and "shouldn't there be more distance running?"
- Sprints were regularly programmed, but many refused to take proper rest periods; I had to explain that just running continuously made the run "not a sprint" and it wouldn't have the same effect.
- When asked for advice on how to gain size or strength, I suggested eating sufficiently (even GOMAD) and "Squat, press, pull, dip, row, etc" with a barbell. This was ignored in lieu of a more appealing "abs and cardio" or "back and biceps" type routine.

What I learned was the importance of good advertising. I gave a short brief in the beginning of what the basics were and how and why we train. Some had some genuine interest, but policing all 60-70 cadets on proper air squat technique and ensuring adequate rest periods was difficult. I could have used another 4-5 people with a similar level of experience.

Still, some will refuse to accept this methodology. I suppose some won't listen to what they don't want to hear. Bottom line, this sort of training needs to be introduced:
- On an individual level with genuine interest, requiring a few hours of research and experimenting. I assume that is how many people on this board began training.
- By example, seeing someone bust through the WOD, and the improvement in health/fitness over time proving that it works.
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Old 09-20-2010, 06:15 AM   #39
Eric Montgomery
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Re: Military says You’re Too Flabby For CrossFit

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Originally Posted by Rob St. Croix View Post
In the circles I operate, we refer to that as someone being, "Task Saturated."

Also, the term "Military" as it is used in the article is so broad a term. Each service is distinct in its methods for initial training and in their minimum entry requirements for physical fitness. The Corps has been using a CF like system for decades... we call it the "Pit" and the "quarterdeck."
The downside to the pit/quarterdeck is that it's not supposed to follow any logical progression for getting someone in shape over the course of 12 weeks--it's just a way to smoke someone for a few minutes and give them a very tangible, painful instant correction.

As Joseph said earlier boot camp isn't really about getting people in better shape, it's about throwing some stress their way and teaching them how to follow orders. Most recruits end up in better shape due to the novice effect--they've been relatively inactive for so long that doing anything will give them benefits. If improving fitness was the primary focus you'd have to give recruits more rest, better food, and a better thought-out progression on their scheduled PT sessions and what's done on the quarterdeck.
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Old 09-20-2010, 06:51 AM   #40
Bryan Kemper
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Re: Military says You’re Too Flabby For CrossFit

I have had personnel from an Air Force base Health and Wellness Center remark that they did not believe that Crossfit had enough "cardio" to be effective for the the general population. These are the same people that issue heart rate monitors and have people that fail their PT test to log their heart rate as the end-all be-all of fitness improvement.
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