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Old 09-24-2013, 02:06 PM   #71
Alexander Dreyzen
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Re: Trying out a new diet idea

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Originally Posted by Jeff Enge View Post
So... is that you saying you don't have anything? Just wondering, I'm interested as to if there's actually backing for this claim that actually isolates such carb sources and can't be just explained by the simpler premise of extra energy expenditure.
...
Here is a simple proof that it's not just extra energy. Another way of saying it, is: a calorie is not a calorie.

It's actually quite simple, and it's surprising how few people get it. Do you agree, that you pancreas will pump different amount of insulin, depending if you eat a handful of walnuts or a baked potato (no butter)?

Even, though, both will have about 100 calories, there will only be a trace of insulin for the nuts and a large spike for the potato. You should also know how insulin works -- it drives blood sugar into fat cells, including the blood sugar that you have had in your blood, before you ate the potato. So the potato will trigger some 20-30 calories of your blood sugar to be stored as fat, with the end result being that you have 20-30 calorie energy deficit in your blood stream, which your body will demand you replenish. So you have less energy available and more fat stored.

If on the other hand you ate a handful of walnuts, all you blood sugar will stay available for energy, and you would have circulating fatty acids from walnuts, as the energy to use as well.

Last edited by Alexander Dreyzen : 09-24-2013 at 02:20 PM.
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Old 09-24-2013, 02:21 PM   #72
Jeff Enge
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Re: Trying out a new diet idea

But this is leaving out an important part. Continuing on your path of discussion:

Our bodies use fat cells as stores of energy to perform tasks - as a matter of fact, that is the primary function of such cells. Therefore, you want fat cells in order to expend amounts of energy doing things that may not be done when your body is metabolizing food.

So, the way I see it, the problem is still simply that more energy - whether stored as fat or elsewhere in the body - is being consumed than is being expended.
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Old 09-24-2013, 02:50 PM   #73
Bill M. Hesse
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Re: Trying out a new diet idea

Not to mention carbs are protein sparing Jeff. What actions does fat serve in the preservation of proteins?
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Old 09-24-2013, 02:55 PM   #74
Alexander Dreyzen
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Re: Trying out a new diet idea

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Originally Posted by Jeff Enge View Post
...
Therefore, you want fat cells in order to expend amounts of energy doing things that may not be done when your body is metabolizing food.
...
Nothing can be further than the truth than the above quote. When you are metabolizing food your insulin is up and your fat cells are useless as a source of energy -- all they are doing it taking more fat in.

Besides, fat cells are not like a jar -- easy to put in, easy to take out. They are more like a piggy bank -- easy to put in, hard to fish out.

Last edited by Alexander Dreyzen : 09-24-2013 at 03:11 PM.
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Old 09-24-2013, 03:14 PM   #75
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Re: Trying out a new diet idea

That's my point. When you are NOT metabolizing food, what are you using as energy? Ah-ha - those pesky fat cells!
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Old 09-24-2013, 03:17 PM   #76
Alexander Dreyzen
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Re: Trying out a new diet idea

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Not to mention carbs are protein sparing Jeff. What actions does fat serve in the preservation of proteins?
That's an example of a classic generalization and a self-fulfilling prophecy, which is being repeated ad nauseum on bodybuilding and crossfit forums.
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Old 09-24-2013, 03:35 PM   #77
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Re: Trying out a new diet idea

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That's an example of a classic generalization and a self-fulfilling prophecy, which is being repeated ad nauseum on bodybuilding and crossfit forums.
I think Bill has more knowledge of metabolic processes than just from reading things on the internet.
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Old 09-24-2013, 05:29 PM   #78
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Re: Trying out a new diet idea

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Actually for cardio/endurance Keto works wonders. Because body fuels from fat which is the only steady source of energy. When doing endurance, glycogen is not the primary fuel, we dont even have it enough to last that long. Peter Attia described this very well.

But its the lifting or 1RM that need carbs, but only something small, to replenish glycogen
I think you have it backwards.
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Old 09-24-2013, 05:34 PM   #79
Bill M. Hesse
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Re: Trying out a new diet idea

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That's an example of a classic generalization and a self-fulfilling prophecy, which is being repeated ad nauseum on bodybuilding and crossfit forums.
Clarify how that is "classic generalization" and "self fulfilling prophecy". I don't understand what you mean. Am I wrong? If so, please explain so that I may be better informed.
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Old 09-24-2013, 05:38 PM   #80
Bill M. Hesse
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Re: Trying out a new diet idea

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I think you have it backwards.
Agreed. I was under the impression that there are about 800-2000kcal can be stored in muscles and liver in the form of glycogen. Fat is still more I think but from an evolutionary stand point more for a duration of no food?
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