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Old 04-22-2014, 01:39 PM   #91
Todd Neal
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Re: Food for one day, how to improve?

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Originally Posted by Luke Sirakos View Post
That's not really how it works, your body doesn't store up food and wait for it to reach a deficit or surplus before it starts oxidation.
This seems correct, if I'm understanding you. Your body is always generating energy.

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Originally Posted by Luke Sirakos View Post
You have to be in a deficit to use stored energy, if you are not, your body is not just going to start burning fat.
This part doesn't make sense though. Let's say that I burn exactly 2,000 cals every 24-hour period. And let's say that I just ate exactly 2,000 cals for breakfast. It seems like you're saying that none of those 2,000 cals I just ate will be stored because by the end of the day I'm coming out even. But of course, immediately after the meal my body will only burn what it can at that moment and it will store the rest to be used throughout the day (otherwise I'd end up hyperglycemic). In an ideal world, this wouldn't matter at all because I'd eventually end up burning all of what I'd stored from breakfast.

But it's not an ideal world. Once my body has burned what it can from the meal and stored the rest, it has to be able to access those stores easily throughout the 24-hour period in order to hit my final 2,000 cals burned. If it can't access those stores (due to what I'm going to claim is insulin), then it's going to slow down, and I'll end up under 2,000 cals burned. And you know what that means...
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Old 04-22-2014, 03:42 PM   #92
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Re: Food for one day, how to improve?

Here's an interesting study:
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/87/1/44.long (wfs)

The Abstract Conclusion:
"In the short term, high-protein, low-carbohydrate ketogenic diets reduce hunger and lower food intake significantly more than do high-protein, medium-carbohydrate nonketogenic diets."

Instead of focusing on eating less, let's focus on being less hungry.
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Old 04-22-2014, 05:18 PM   #93
Luke Sirakos
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Re: Food for one day, how to improve?

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Originally Posted by Todd Neal View Post
This seems correct, if I'm understanding you. Your body is always generating energy.



This part doesn't make sense though. Let's say that I burn exactly 2,000 cals every 24-hour period. And let's say that I just ate exactly 2,000 cals for breakfast. It seems like you're saying that none of those 2,000 cals I just ate will be stored because by the end of the day I'm coming out even. But of course, immediately after the meal my body will only burn what it can at that moment and it will store the rest to be used throughout the day (otherwise I'd end up hyperglycemic). In an ideal world, this wouldn't matter at all because I'd eventually end up burning all of what I'd stored from breakfast.

But it's not an ideal world. Once my body has burned what it can from the meal and stored the rest, it has to be able to access those stores easily throughout the 24-hour period in order to hit my final 2,000 cals burned. If it can't access those stores (due to what I'm going to claim is insulin), then it's going to slow down, and I'll end up under 2,000 cals burned. And you know what that means...
Huh? If you burn 2000 calories a day and you ingest 2000 calories in a day, regardless of the fact that it was in one meal you are still going to end up at a zero sum gain. No additional fat will be stored nor would any additional fat be burned. Clearly if you burn less than you eat then you will add weight. I honestly have no clue the point you are trying to make, it is like you are just making things up now.

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Originally Posted by Todd Neal View Post
Here's an interesting study:
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/87/1/44.long (wfs)

The Abstract Conclusion:
"In the short term, high-protein, low-carbohydrate ketogenic diets reduce hunger and lower food intake significantly more than do high-protein, medium-carbohydrate nonketogenic diets."
In the short term sure, I would never argue that. In the long term it is quite debatable.

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Instead of focusing on eating less, let's focus on being less hungry.
Ummm ok? If you are less hungry and eating in a surplus you are still going to gain weight and not burn fat. You focus on your hunger issues, I will continue to eat less, still not be hungry, and continue to see results. Let me know when you start seeing them.
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Old 04-22-2014, 05:24 PM   #94
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Re: Food for one day, how to improve?

Every time I try to describe why a low-carb approach is better than the standard approach, I'm met with the equivalent of "yeah, but still." I'm moving on.
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Old 04-22-2014, 05:34 PM   #95
Luke Sirakos
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Re: Food for one day, how to improve?

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Every time I try to describe why a low-carb approach is better than the standard approach, I'm met with the equivalent of "yeah, but still." I'm moving on.
LOL

Apparently math and thermodynamics are both thwarted by insulin as well. I beg you Todd, please oh please tell me how focusing on not being hungry but still eating in a surplus will cause you to lose fat.
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Old 04-22-2014, 06:00 PM   #96
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Re: Food for one day, how to improve?

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Originally Posted by Luke Sirakos View Post
Clearly if you burn less than you eat then you will add weight.
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Originally Posted by Luke Sirakos View Post
If you are less hungry and eating in a surplus you are still going to gain weight and not burn fat.
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Originally Posted by Luke Sirakos View Post
If you eat a 500 calorie surplus of fat, you will simply store that surplus of fat.
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Originally Posted by Luke Sirakos View Post
A caloric surplus is a caloric surplus no matter if it is from fats, carbs, or protein. If you eat in a surplus you will gain weight.
Wait, so you're saying that a caloric surplus causes weight gain?
...sigh...
Show me where I said that it didn't. Show me where any of us said that it didn't.

New topic:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Sirakos View Post
It takes a deficit to lose weight and that means eating less or exercising more.
I'm going to include a third option; "or eating foods that don't increase fat storage, do increase fat mobilization and oxidation, and reduce hunger, which in turn causes you to eat less AND exercise more, and all without actually having to focus on eating less or exercising more."
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Old 04-22-2014, 06:13 PM   #97
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Re: Food for one day, how to improve?

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Wait, so you're saying that a caloric surplus causes weight gain?
...sigh...
Show me where I said that it didn't. Show me where any of us said that it didn't.

New topic:


I'm going to include a third option; "or eating foods that don't increase fat storage, do increase fat mobilization and oxidation, and reduce hunger, which in turn causes you to eat less AND exercise more, and all without actually having to focus on eating less or exercising more."
Foods that don't increase fat storage? That would have to be foods that cause your body to burn more calories than are contained in the food itself. I think celery does that, not many things do.

Foods that increase fat mobilization and oxidation? Normal fat doesn't do this. MCTs can increase this a bit but I doubt you consume enough of those to make a big difference.

Foods that reduce hunger? Darryl already posted a link showing those. There were some high carb foods on that list.

These foods MIGHT cause you to eat less but you won't know if you don't track them. Probably the reason you haven't lost weight. You eat more than you think.

And foods that cause you to exercise more? Those exist?
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Old 04-23-2014, 11:03 AM   #98
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Re: Food for one day, how to improve?

I was looking through some studies and came across this. This is hands down the best way I've seen to describe my thoughts on nutrition:

"It is well understood that thermodynamics and energy balance are core factors involved in the obesity epidemic, with small increases in energy intake coupled with declining physical activity resulting in a net positive energy balance and progressive weight gain. It has consequently become axiomatic to reduce the obesity epidemic to a simple question of energy balance and to invoke various strategies to induce negative energy balance to address the problem. However, it is equally well understood that obesity is a complex genetic trait, with multiple genes interacting to confer relative resistance or susceptibility to positive energy balance. Similarly, specific micro- or macronutrients, dietary patterns, or both may modulate the same metabolic pathways affected by these genetic factors and thereby alter nutrient and energy partitioning.

Accordingly, whereas there can be little doubt that it is of prime importance to address issues of energy intake and energy expenditure, it is the premise of this article that it has also become critical to address nutritional strategies and dietary patterns that may alter energy partitioning and thereby reduce energy balance and the risk of overweight and obesity. This approach, if viable, becomes increasingly important as we recognize the frequent failures of individual persons and populations to adhere to strategies designed to produce negative energy balance. Indeed, we know from previous experience the value of promoting positive behaviors rather than using a prohibitive approach to accomplish a given health outcome. For example, although there is a well-established relation between salt intake and blood pressure control, the inability of most patients to comply with highly sodium-restricted diets presents a nearly overwhelming barrier to the success of these diets, not unlike the general inability of individual persons to adhere to energy-restricted weight-control diets for extended periods of time. In contrast, the DASH (Dietary Approaches to Stop Hypertension) diet presents, instead, the positive approach of increasing fruit, vegetable, and dairy intakes to lower blood pressure, and numerous studies now attest to the relative success of these less-restrictive dairy-rich or DASH-based diets in controlling blood pressure (1-3). Notably, recent evidence now indicates that these same diets play a significant role in the partitioning of dietary energy and may be helpful in the prevention and management of obesity."

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/79/5/907S.long (wfs) - if anyone's interested
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Last edited by Todd Neal : 04-23-2014 at 11:24 AM.
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Old 04-23-2014, 02:29 PM   #99
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Re: Food for one day, how to improve?

Todd, also check literature on leptin, I thin you might be interested in it.
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