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Old 04-22-2014, 10:02 AM   #81
Luke Sirakos
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Re: Food for one day, how to improve?

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Originally Posted by Dare Vodusek View Post
I imagine cereal work for you and understand why. But there is a whole different issue with them - lectins. Not good for health and I've eliminated them.

Therefore I cant think of a single carb source that would satiate a person while not having a negative effect on his/her health. Not being a carb fan I might be wrong, so you might offer me some ideas?
Um vegetables? Fruit?
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Old 04-22-2014, 10:08 AM   #82
Dare Vodusek
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Re: Food for one day, how to improve?

Arent those high GI food which leads to short insulin raise/drop ending up as hunger feeling?
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Old 04-22-2014, 10:13 AM   #83
Luke Sirakos
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Re: Food for one day, how to improve?

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Originally Posted by Todd Neal View Post
See I was reading this like, "Carb intake inhibits stored fat oxidation," which you admittedly didn't say. It's an important distinction though, and I wonder if you're on board with the idea: Increased levels of insulin prohibit stored fat oxidation.
I am on board with the idea of the insulin response from carbs is such that the carbs are expended as energy and it does not create additional prohibition of fat oxidation.

Still waiting on this by the way...

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What isn't effective about it? Throw diet methodology out the window, what is ineffective about tracking calories? I am not talking about people under or over reporting their calories, I am talking about accurately tracking calories (this isn't hard by the way, a basic kitchen scale + myfitnesspal or other similar app makes it stupidly easy).
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Old 04-22-2014, 10:23 AM   #84
Luke Sirakos
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Re: Food for one day, how to improve?

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Arent those high GI food which leads to short insulin raise/drop ending up as hunger feeling?
Vegetables sure fill me up. Even if not, the health benefits should outweigh the cost and I can't take any diet seriously that would tell you to not eat vegetables.

Don't forget that vegetables are high in fiber which increases satiety and also improves glycemic control.
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Old 04-22-2014, 10:31 AM   #85
Dare Vodusek
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Re: Food for one day, how to improve?

My bad, missed the vegetable part and only saw fruit.

I very much believe our ancestors did not have a lot of vegetable and therefore dont take them as something essential in our diet.

But I do see how they help with satiety because of fiber, but that alone is not good enough for me, I rather have some fats, tbh
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Old 04-22-2014, 11:40 AM   #86
Todd Neal
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Re: Food for one day, how to improve?

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Originally Posted by Luke Sirakos View Post
I am on board with the idea of the insulin response from carbs is such that the carbs are expended as energy and it does not create additional prohibition of fat oxidation.

Still waiting on this by the way...
I'm not sure I'm being clear enough about the insulin thing... As Attia puts it, "High levels of insulin promote fat storage and inhibit fat oxidation, and low levels of insulin promote fat mobilization or release along with fat oxidation." I get that excess of anything is stored, but what about all the calories that come before you reach that excess point? If you can keep your insulin down, your body can pull fat from storage and burn it, and you'll be less hungry. Otherwise you'll get hungry because you've run out of calories to burn and you'll look to eat more food.

Which brings me to the response about tracking food. If you knew exactly how many calories you were eating, and exactly how many calories you were burning, then it shouldn't be an issue to maintain your current weight. My problem is that if you cut 300 cals from your diet without changing the composition of the diet, you're going to be hungry, and eventually your body will catch up to you and you'll just be burning 300 cals less.

So while we can agree that losing weight comes down to a caloric deficit, changing the composition of the diet should be the first priority. Often, people will end up eating less cals because the foods aren't as calorically dense, which negates the need to track cals.

See? I'm making things easier. It's definitely not easy for me to weigh and track all of the food that I eat. Tell me how many calories are in that stuffed pork chop with pan sauce, or the sesame-crusted tuna with orange-avocado salsa. There's no "weigh" I'm going to try to type all of that into a calorie counter.
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Old 04-22-2014, 11:57 AM   #87
Dare Vodusek
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Re: Food for one day, how to improve?

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If you can keep your insulin down, your body can pull fat from storage and burn it, and you'll be less hungry. Otherwise you'll get hungry because you've run out of calories to burn and you'll look to eat more food.
Sorry Todd, but there is yet unclear to us how the hunger controlling hormones work, I doubt its that simple as you think.

Our body is very good in storing fat, its a fat storing machine and it will only burn fat from storage when really needed, thats why the fat is there.
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Old 04-22-2014, 12:47 PM   #88
Luke Sirakos
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Re: Food for one day, how to improve?

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I'm not sure I'm being clear enough about the insulin thing... As Attia puts it, "High levels of insulin promote fat storage and inhibit fat oxidation, and low levels of insulin promote fat mobilization or release along with fat oxidation." I get that excess of anything is stored, but what about all the calories that come before you reach that excess point? If you can keep your insulin down, your body can pull fat from storage and burn it, and you'll be less hungry. Otherwise you'll get hungry because you've run out of calories to burn and you'll look to eat more food.
That's not really how it works, your body doesn't store up food and wait for it to reach a deficit or surplus before it starts oxidation. You have to be in a deficit to use stored energy, if you are not, your body is not just going to start burning fat.

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Originally Posted by Todd Neal View Post
Which brings me to the response about tracking food. If you knew exactly how many calories you were eating, and exactly how many calories you were burning, then it shouldn't be an issue to maintain your current weight. My problem is that if you cut 300 cals from your diet without changing the composition of the diet, you're going to be hungry, and eventually your body will catch up to you and you'll just be burning 300 cals less.

So while we can agree that losing weight comes down to a caloric deficit, changing the composition of the diet should be the first priority. Often, people will end up eating less cals because the foods aren't as calorically dense, which negates the need to track cals.

See? I'm making things easier. It's definitely not easy for me to weigh and track all of the food that I eat. Tell me how many calories are in that stuffed pork chop with pan sauce, or the sesame-crusted tuna with orange-avocado salsa. There's no "weigh" I'm going to try to type all of that into a calorie counter.
You are still off base. Yes you will likely need to change what you eat in order to stay satiated on a lower calorie diet, that does not necessarily mean you need to change from a high or moderate carb diet to a low carb diet though. It has been shown that people who eat a big salad before dinner eat less dinner and are just as full. Same with people who drink water before a meal. Making your first step be "Do not pass go, do not collect $200, go directly to low carb" is completely unnecessary.

And while sure, you can definitely eat in a caloric deficit without tracking your calories, if you are not losing like you want or expect then you should track your calories. I didn't track cals for the first 20 lbs of my weight loss because that part was easy. I started to notice it stalled out and so I got serious about it and made sure I was getting X number of calories per day and not going over that. I might be kind of hungry some nights but for the most part hunger hasn't ever been an issue even though I am in a pretty large deficit.

And it still isn't that hard to track more complicated items. Myfitnesspal has a pretty cool feature where you can put in a recipe, add all the ingredients you use and the number of servings and it calculates the nutritional information. Do that once and it is saved for whenever else you want to use it. There is also quite a large database of foods at many restaurants and if not, make an educated guess. Just because you might not be perfect doesn't mean you should throw the baby out with the bath water.

This is why I bring up your progress. If you are not making the progress you want then you need to change something, most likely how much you are eating. To do that you have to know how much you are eating. To do that you have to track your calories. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results, well I think we all know what that is...
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Old 04-22-2014, 12:58 PM   #89
Darryl Shaw
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Re: Food for one day, how to improve?

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Originally Posted by Dare Vodusek View Post
Arent those high GI food which leads to short insulin raise/drop ending up as hunger feeling?
Boiled potatoes have the highest satiety index score of any food tested to date. Remind me, are they a high or low GI food?

A satiety Index of Common Foods.
Holt SH, Miller JC, Petocz P, Farmakalidis E.
Eur J Clin Nutr. 1995 Sep;49(9):675-90.
(wfs)
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Old 04-22-2014, 01:21 PM   #90
Dare Vodusek
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Re: Food for one day, how to improve?

Nice, potatoes are one of my fav carbs, together with white rice. Did not know you could cook them and store them for later use in the fridge. How long would they last in a fridge?

Ps, does not surprise me at all, about the satiety index, they are like 80% water...
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