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Old 04-21-2014, 09:25 AM   #61
Todd Neal
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Re: Food for one day, how to improve?

- My diet works for me. When I was on a strict keto diet I saw the best improvements in my bodyfat, but my workouts suffered. Since I started taking BCAAs and eating a handful of strawberries post-wod, I've got great energy and I've been consistently hitting PRs, although I'm also not strictly keto anymore. Just keep in mind that my personal diet shouldn't affect the validity of what I'm saying.

- I'm not sure exactly what they mean by "adjusting for initial BF% and/or initial weight nullified changes in BF% and weight across the IR groups." I've got a guess, but I won't spell it out here. However, the very next sentence says, "In conclusion, women with High HOMA tend to gain significantly less BF% and weight than women with low or moderate HOMA." (For those reading, HOMA would be high insulin resistance in this case.) So this makes sense with what I'm saying; if you're resistant to insulin, you'll gain less weight. In other words, insulin has a direct relationship with BF% and weight gain.

- I don't think I've said that calories "don't matter." What I've said is that counting calories is not a viable way to lose weight for most people. Don't forget that he laws of thermodynamics still hold with my point of view, I'm just not drawing the typical conclusion from them.
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Old 04-21-2014, 10:35 AM   #62
Luke Sirakos
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Re: Food for one day, how to improve?

I will admit something that you have been stating, eating cabs does inhibit fat oxidation. There is no argument of that from me. When you ingest carbs your body will use that as an energy source rather than fat stores. I would also like to note that the same holds true for protein. However, just because this is true does not mean that excess fat will not be stored as fat.

If you eat a 500 calorie surplus of carbs you will simply store the fat you eat rather than oxidize it since your body will shift towards carb oxidation. If you eat a 500 calorie surplus of fat, you will simply store that surplus of fat. You might be getting your energy source from fat but you are still storing it. To write this as simply as possible, excess carbs will make you fat because your body will shift from fat oxidation to carb oxidation, excess fats will make you fat because your body will simply store the excess. Just because one eats a low carb diet does not mean they can escape the fact that a surplus of fat will be stored as fat. Increasing dietary fat intake does not increase fat oxidation (there can be some exceptions to this but not at a significant level).

This is why I think people on a low carb diet should still track their calories if they are serious about losing fat. You still have a level of energy you take in and a level of energy you expend. A surplus of energy will still equate to an increase of fat storage regardless. Other than laziness, do you have a good reason as to why you should not track your food intake?
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Old 04-21-2014, 11:19 AM   #63
Dare Vodusek
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Re: Food for one day, how to improve?

Unless one is rich enough to have MCT as his main source of fats
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Old 04-21-2014, 11:32 AM   #64
Luke Sirakos
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Re: Food for one day, how to improve?

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Unless one is rich enough to have MCT as his main source of fats
Which is why I included a disclaimer

That would make for a pretty boring diet though (and expensive as you mentioned).

Interesting study on the subject (WFS):

Greater rise in fat oxidation with medium-chain triglyceride consumption relative to long-chain triglyceride is associated with lower initial body weight and greater loss of subcutaneous adipose tissue.
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Old 04-21-2014, 11:57 AM   #65
Todd Neal
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Re: Food for one day, how to improve?

All good stuff, Luke, and I agree with all of it. While I think that it can be beneficial to track food, I don't like the idea of tracking calories in particular. Obviously people over-report and under-report their calories, and caloric output can vary wildly depending on what you're eating; I just don't think it's very effective for most people, and that's been proven time and time again. Don't get me wrong though, it's not to say that it wouldn't work in an ideal situation.

To be honest, I think that we actually agree on a lot of this stuff and the science behind it. It's how we're approaching the solutions that has us going back and forth. We both agree that over-eating will cause weight gain, but instead of focusing on under-eating to cause weight loss, I'm focused on preventing the over-eating.
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Old 04-21-2014, 12:34 PM   #66
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Re: Food for one day, how to improve?

What isn't effective about it? Throw diet methodology out the window, what is ineffective about tracking calories? I am not talking about people under or over reporting their calories, I am talking about accurately tracking calories (this isn't hard by the way, a basic kitchen scale + myfitnesspal or other similar app makes it stupidly easy).
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Old 04-21-2014, 01:06 PM   #67
Dare Vodusek
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Re: Food for one day, how to improve?

We, humans, still dont know exactly how our hormonal system connected with hungar works. What happens with carb overating is quite clear, blood sugar raises, insulin jumps in, deposits it as fat and blood sugar falls. Because of that we can get a feeling of being hungry and eat again.

But some are saying eating non-carb food or keeping them at some basal level will keep the hormonal response at normal, meaning one would only feel hungry when actually hungry, bot becausw of drop in blood sugar.

So in this view, limiting carbs would work. Similar as having 6-8 normal small carb meals a day would work.
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Old 04-21-2014, 02:22 PM   #68
Luke Sirakos
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Re: Food for one day, how to improve?

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We, humans, still dont know exactly how our hormonal system connected with hungar works. What happens with carb overating is quite clear, blood sugar raises, insulin jumps in, deposits it as fat and blood sugar falls. Because of that we can get a feeling of being hungry and eat again.

But some are saying eating non-carb food or keeping them at some basal level will keep the hormonal response at normal, meaning one would only feel hungry when actually hungry, bot becausw of drop in blood sugar.

So in this view, limiting carbs would work. Similar as having 6-8 normal small carb meals a day would work.
I won't deny that certain foods cause different responses in satiation, I can easily crush 500 calories of jelly beans and not feel full (although I would probably throw up from that many jelly beans). Doing the same with green beans is a completely different story as that would be over 15 cups of green beans.

It is also completely reasonable in saying that different people respond differently to certain foods in terms of satiation. Which is why some people do great on a low carb diet whereas others do great on moderate or high carb diets. I have nothing against low carb diets, I certainly believe they have their place. What I have a problem with is the vilification of carbs and thinking that they cause you to magically gain fat or prevent it from being lost.

A caloric surplus is a caloric surplus no matter if it is from fats, carbs, or protein. If you eat in a surplus you will gain weight. If you eat in a deficit you will lose weight. You can get fat eating low carb and you can get fat eating moderate or high carb. There is no magic diet that will allow you to eat in a surplus and not gain weight. This is why above all else, I advocate accurately tracking food intake, regardless of diet (with my second point being eat enough protein). If you don't know how much food you are eating and you don't know why you aren't losing weight it is because you are eating more than you think.

The first piece of advice for someone wanting to lose weight shouldn't be "go low carb" or "go low fat". It should be focus on whole and minimally processed foods, ensure you are getting enough protein (1g per lb LBM should be plenty for the majority), and get an accurate understanding for how much you are eating. If you aren't losing weight then eat less or exercise more.
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Old 04-21-2014, 02:37 PM   #69
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Re: Food for one day, how to improve?

Maybe we all can cope with satiation the same, its just some have more "metabolic damage" than others. Just thinking out loud... what somehow fascinates me that we ALL are 100% identical on the molecul level (beside the one who are very very ill), so on micro level me we identical, but when it comes on the macro level, its very popular to say "each person is different", id just say its different environment and living style, but what does not mean we all cant be the same, even on the macro level and I am pretty sure there is a diet which is ideal to everyone of us (health wise, not performance).

Sorry for a bit of ranting
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Old 04-21-2014, 02:50 PM   #70
Luke Sirakos
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Re: Food for one day, how to improve?

We are all pretty similar but not THAT similar. Some people are diabetic. Some people have allergies. I know people who absolutely cannot eat any form of dairy or they could possibly die. And I don't know how it is in your neck of the woods but the whole peanut allergy thing is quite a problem for some here. Poor souls can't enjoy delicious peanut butter.

At the end of the day we shouldn't miss the forest for the trees. It takes a deficit to lose weight and that means eating less or exercising more. If you aren't doing that part then it is the first thing that should be addressed.
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