The 405 Squat

Originally Posted by Matthew Swartz

I think LBBS might be easier to get completely vertical shins than HBBS. Looking at some Oly HBBS, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rodJ...eature=related WFS, shins are still pretty vertical.

Receiving in a clean is a whole different story.

His femurs look shorter than his lower leg though

If only I had that.

[Steve Collegio]

even in that video that Matt posted, his shins are not vertical.

i feel like im going crazy today LOL

[Matthew Swartz]

Originally Posted by Steve Collegio

even in that video that Matt posted, his shins are not vertical.

i feel like im going crazy today LOL

Haha you're misunderstanding me then. I wasn't saying they were, just saying it can get close in HBBS.

[Steve Collegio]

ha, gotcha. they generally will always extend over the toes tho. will never be completely vertical

[Preston Sprimont]

Originally Posted by Chris Mason

You are right, hence I said as close as possible.

Watch this 825 lbs raw squat (he used knee wraps). His knees are forward, but he minimizes it.

WFS: http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...at-Animal-Cage

By the way, Sam is a powerlifter. Strong as heck especially for his body weight. And, no, he did not use the Olympic bounce like Mendes to get half way back up. This lift is all brute strength.

Beastly strength that Sam fellow has. And yes, his shins are pretty vertical, but he is squatting low bar with a moderately wide stance... pretty different than a high bar back squat. It's silly to say that a lifter should focus on keeping his shins as close to vertical as possible no matter what his squatting style is. That just flies in the face of body mechanics and levers and anecdote and all of that good stuff. To say that having the knees behind the toes is less strenuous on the joints of the knee is one thing, and I agree. But you can't effectively high-bar back squat with your shins near-vertical unless you have some really odd anthropomorphy.
And the apparent discrediting of Pat Mendes's 800 lb squat because he uses a bounce at the bottom is absurd. The man takes 800 lbs from a standing position to a rock bottom position and back up to a standing position, and he uses nothing but his own body to do that.
Does a bounce help him out of the hole? Most certainly. As far as I know, Sam's knee wraps and belt help add some pounds to his squat as well.
Is using a bounce at the bottom of an ATG squat "cheating," and does it effortlessly send the bar half way up the squat? Ahh, no.

Pat Mendes is incredibly strong. So is Sam. They compete in different sports, but that is no reason to imply that one of their lifts deserves any more or less praise than the other.

[Matthew Swartz]

Originally Posted by Preston Sprimont

Beastly strength that Sam fellow has. And yes, his shins are pretty vertical, but he is squatting low bar with a moderately wide stance... pretty different than a high bar back squat. It's silly to say that a lifter should focus on keeping his shins as close to vertical as possible no matter what his squatting style is. That just flies in the face of body mechanics and levers and anecdote and all of that good stuff. To say that having the knees behind the toes is less strenuous on the joints of the knee is one thing, and I agree. But you can't effectively high-bar back squat with your shins near-vertical unless you have some really odd anthropomorphy.
And the apparent discrediting of Pat Mendes's 800 lb squat because he uses a bounce at the bottom is absurd. The man takes 800 lbs from a standing position to a rock bottom position and back up to a standing position, and he uses nothing but his own body to do that.
Does a bounce help him out of the hole? Most certainly. As far as I know, Sam's knee wraps and belt help add some pounds to his squat as well.
Is using a bounce at the bottom of an ATG squat "cheating," and does it effortlessly send the bar half way up the squat? Ahh, no.

Pat Mendes is incredibly strong. So is Sam. They compete in different sports, but that is no reason to imply that one of their lifts deserves any more or less praise than the other.

I'm enjoying all the comments, but what do you guys have to say about my squat? Y'all agree with Chris?

[Preston Sprimont]

Originally Posted by Matthew Swartz

I'm enjoying all the comments, but what do you guys have to say about my squat? Y'all agree with Chris?

Haha, your thread was a wee-bit hijacked. Sorry about that.

I think the squat looks pretty solid, and a super impressive lift, especially for your bodyweight.
The descent looks great, but you are maybe a bit shifty on the ascent... you hit depth, then shift your hips back a bit, then shift your hips and knees forward (about half way up the squat), seemingly to correct for the bar moving forward when your hips shot back.
As far as your shin angle overall (not speaking about the shifting business), it doesn't seem unreasonably non-vertical to me. It's kind of hard to say from just one video if you would do better with a more or less vertical shin (and thus less or more vertical torso), but it looks pretty on-par with what a high bar back squat should look like.
Good work!

[Chris Mason]

Originally Posted by Frances Ballesteros

Bounce or no bounce, it's still an ATG squat (not hating on Sam)

The bounce makes a HUGE difference in what the lifter can get up. Make a lifter that bounces NOT bounce and see how much less they squat.

[Mauricio Leal]

This thread just started kipping. Make it stop.

[Chris Mason]

Originally Posted by Preston Sprimont

Beastly strength that Sam fellow has. And yes, his shins are pretty vertical, but he is squatting low bar with a moderately wide stance... pretty different than a high bar back squat. It's silly to say that a lifter should focus on keeping his shins as close to vertical as possible no matter what his squatting style is. That just flies in the face of body mechanics and levers and anecdote and all of that good stuff. To say that having the knees behind the toes is less strenuous on the joints of the knee is one thing, and I agree. But you can't effectively high-bar back squat with your shins near-vertical unless you have some really odd anthropomorphy.
And the apparent discrediting of Pat Mendes's 800 lb squat because he uses a bounce at the bottom is absurd. The man takes 800 lbs from a standing position to a rock bottom position and back up to a standing position, and he uses nothing but his own body to do that.
Does a bounce help him out of the hole? Most certainly. As far as I know, Sam's knee wraps and belt help add some pounds to his squat as well.
Is using a bounce at the bottom of an ATG squat "cheating," and does it effortlessly send the bar half way up the squat? Ahh, no.

Pat Mendes is incredibly strong. So is Sam. They compete in different sports, but that is no reason to imply that one of their lifts deserves any more or less praise than the other.

You know the difference in our opinions on the matter, I have squatted with that much weight. Have you?

The bounce makes a HUUUUGGGEEEE difference.

You are correct, knee wraps help as well. Probably 50-70 lbs. Here is my bet, we put wraps on Pat and don't allow him to bounce. I'll bet he is way short of his 800 lbs.

I DO agree, Pat is a very strong kid. I didn't discredit his lift, I pointed out a fact that gets lost on many.

By the way, Pat puts the bar about the same place on his back as does Sam. Compare the videos if you doubt.