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Old 01-11-2009, 07:01 AM   #1
George Mounce
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Perhaps we shouldn't tell new people to Google

Link is to a Fox News story on the Google environmental footprint, and is WFS.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,479127,00.html
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Old 01-11-2009, 08:06 AM   #2
Frank Dennis
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Re: Perhaps we shouldn't tell new people to Google

<rant>

Google searches generate carbon dioxide because power generation causes carbon dioxide. The problem isn't the fact that Google's search engine operational model draws (slightly) more power to get you faster results (which is awesome, and the way every internet data retrieval system should work); the problem (as it has always been with most things that people tell you you shouldn't do or do less of) is that power generation creates carbon dioxide.

Anyone else notice that "green" rapidly became a marketing term, to such a degree that it has very little to do with sustainability anymore? Talk enough about alternative energy sources, then slap "clean" in front of "coal," and you're back to not having to worry about changing your operation until the fossil fuels actually run out.

There is, and always has been, one and only one natural, truly sustainable non-polluting source of energy; the Sun. All, and I mean all, of the energy that drives what happens on Earth comes from there. There are places where you can use wind or hydroelectric power, but all you're really doing is using sunlight that's been made inefficient. If you want truly sustainable energy in sufficient quantities to maintain the technologically intensive civilization we've built (and we've already proven, as a species, that we'll die before we give that up) it's either solar power, or for an "unnatural" (and very slightly polluting) technological alternative, find a handy source of He3 (WFS),work out the kinks, and start building fusion stations.

In the meantime, much as with hybrids, bio-diesel, and E-85 ethanol for fueling cars, articles like this keep encouraging people to put band-aids on a gaping wound, and are really just a spin on a slightly different way of wasting energy and resources that businesses can cash in on because they can label them "green." What we need is for everyone to use Google, do searches and educate themselves about the truly useful alternative energy sources, and if even a tiny, tiny fraction of them (especially kids) decide to take an interest and make it their job to learn and work in the field, maybe we can finally get some true sustainability going.

</rant>

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Last edited by Frank Dennis; 01-11-2009 at 08:29 AM.. Reason: grammar was lost in the fervor of rantifying...
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Old 01-11-2009, 08:18 AM   #3
George Mounce
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Re: Perhaps we shouldn't tell new people to Google

Frank, I hope you don't think I was suggesting to not use Google. I'm on your side.

Regardless, it was a very fine rant.
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Old 01-11-2009, 08:23 AM   #4
Karin Jonczak
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Re: Perhaps we shouldn't tell new people to Google

"clean" coal is like saying CrossFit is "easy"....

ridiculous to those with even 1/2 a brain, unfortunately most of the world has about a 1/4 of a brain...
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Old 01-11-2009, 08:27 AM   #5
Frank Dennis
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Re: Perhaps we shouldn't tell new people to Google

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Originally Posted by George Mounce View Post
Frank, I hope you don't think I was suggesting to not use Google. I'm on your side.

Regardless, it was a very fine rant.
Nope, that was a rant at The Establishment.
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Old 01-11-2009, 08:47 AM   #6
John Simmons
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Re: Perhaps we shouldn't tell new people to Google

Quick! Stop breathing! Your creating more carbon dioxide! In fact, stop doing Crossfit. It makes you breath harder and creates more carbon dioxide.
Sorry, I had to make the Crossfit/Global Warming connection just for a laugh.

Myself, I'm a little more concerned about other things than carbon being pushed into the atmosphere life sulfer and other heavy chemicals. Really, looking the technology to date, nuclear is probably the lowest evironmental impact for maximum production. Seriously, the cries against it are hardly justified since there is less radiation around nuclear power plants than in central New York and the waste is really being shoved back to its source, deep underground encased in stone. But that's just my take.

Last edited by John Simmons; 01-11-2009 at 08:49 AM.. Reason: Grammar
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Old 01-11-2009, 09:03 AM   #7
Frank Dennis
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Re: Perhaps we shouldn't tell new people to Google

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Originally Posted by John Simmons View Post
Quick! Stop breathing! Your creating more carbon dioxide! In fact, stop doing Crossfit. It makes you breath harder and creates more carbon dioxide.
Sorry, I had to make the Crossfit/Global Warming connection just for a laugh.

Myself, I'm a little more concerned about other things than carbon being pushed into the atmosphere life sulfer and other heavy chemicals. Really, looking the technology to date, nuclear is probably the lowest evironmental impact for maximum production. Seriously, the cries against it are hardly justified since there is less radiation around nuclear power plants than in central New York and the waste is really being shoved back to its source, deep underground encased in stone. But that's just my take.
I pretty much agree, John; given adequate storage for the leftovers, fission isn't so bad. There is a bit of an issue of concentration, of course. It didn't start at quite that potency when naturally encased in stone.

One of the big advantages, though, to a He3 + Deuterium reaction, if we can make it work and find a reliable source of He3, is that the reaction generates an alpha particle and a high-energy proton. Compared to what you get out of a fission reactor when things go pear-shaped, this is a very clean reaction. So, shielding is less expensive. Also, the fusion reactants are in more abundant supply.

The problem, of course, is that He3 isn't particularly abundant on Earth. However, there's a good chance there're significant quantities on the Moon. Also from the Moon, we can take ice, from which we could extract deuterium. The problem is getting it home, but if you set up a mass driver (WFS) on the Moon, you could just shoot big fat containers of He3 and ice at Earth for splashdown in the open sea.
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Old 01-12-2009, 02:18 AM   #8
Jeff Wilson
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Re: Perhaps we shouldn't tell new people to Google

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Originally Posted by Frank Dennis View Post
I pretty much agree, John; given adequate storage for the leftovers, fission isn't so bad. There is a bit of an issue of concentration, of course. It didn't start at quite that potency when naturally encased in stone.

One of the big advantages, though, to a He3 + Deuterium reaction, if we can make it work and find a reliable source of He3, is that the reaction generates an alpha particle and a high-energy proton. Compared to what you get out of a fission reactor when things go pear-shaped, this is a very clean reaction. So, shielding is less expensive. Also, the fusion reactants are in more abundant supply.

The problem, of course, is that He3 isn't particularly abundant on Earth. However, there's a good chance there're significant quantities on the Moon. Also from the Moon, we can take ice, from which we could extract deuterium. The problem is getting it home, but if you set up a mass driver (WFS) on the Moon, you could just shoot big fat containers of He3 and ice at Earth for splashdown in the open sea.
I dare you to make it happen and win a government contract.
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Old 01-12-2009, 07:10 AM   #9
Frank Dennis
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Re: Perhaps we shouldn't tell new people to Google

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I dare you to make it happen and win a government contract.
Ah, damn. See, having discovered CF a little over a month ago, I've developed a whole new intensity for taking on challenges. OK, I'll do it!

You wouldn't happen to have a spare trillion dollars for initial R&D, would you?

Seriously, both the US and China are planning on establishing permanent lunar outposts within the next couple of decades. Given the attention that He3 + 2H (deuterium; a hydrogen isotope containing one neutron) fusion has gotten so much attention the last few years, I'm pretty confident that both governments have plans to investigate the feasibility of mining the Moon for the reactants.

And, of course, building giant superlaser weapons...
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Old 01-12-2009, 10:31 AM   #10
Henry Miller
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Re: Perhaps we shouldn't tell new people to Google

Google disagrees with those numbers.

http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/...le-search.html (wfs)
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