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Old 07-30-2012, 10:05 PM   #1
Steve Gifford
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Clean and Jerk and Snatch

Took some video of me working up and then back down for both today. What are some things that I can be doing better to be more efficient. I've been told I pull too hard from the floor and should have a slower pull. How does that work?

C&J
http://youtu.be/7teMC6ykGoo (WFS)

Snatch
http://youtu.be/V_bCL9Y9O3c (WFS)

Yes I know I'm on my toes in the snatch, I can't seem to stay on my heels at all.
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Old 07-31-2012, 07:11 AM   #2
Paul Victor French
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Re: Clean and Jerk and Snatch

I don't think slower is the right word, I'd say be more patient instead. Your back isn't even set before you lift the weight, your yanking the bar off the floor and your hips are too high, try driving with your legs more.

Do you feel you have some flexibility issues? I also saw your 380 back squat which wasn't even close to depth.
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Old 07-31-2012, 08:35 AM   #3
Carl N Cobb
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Re: Clean and Jerk and Snatch

Make sure you really punch up into that bar when you recieve it to lock it in position, you shouldnt get pulled backwards if you do this.. And before more patient through the 2nd pull, when you get pulled forwards thats because you rushed it and hit triple extention before the bar gets to where it needs to be.

CJ
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Old 07-31-2012, 08:48 AM   #4
Steve Gifford
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Re: Clean and Jerk and Snatch

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Originally Posted by Paul Victor French View Post
I don't think slower is the right word, I'd say be more patient instead. Your back isn't even set before you lift the weight, your yanking the bar off the floor and your hips are too high, try driving with your legs more.

Do you feel you have some flexibility issues? I also saw your 380 back squat which wasn't even close to depth.
I've been working on doing mobility wods for squat depth. But currently that's about as deep as it gets when I'm over about 340. Been doing lots of deep squat sits trying to get deeper and hold it.
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Old 07-31-2012, 01:36 PM   #5
Clint Harris
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Re: Clean and Jerk and Snatch

Steve, not trying to be mean or anything. But I think you need to go back to basics with that snatch. Work with an unweighted bar or even a PVC pipe until you can do a few OHS, snatch balance/drop etc before trying to do a full snatch like that. Seems like "snap-city" in the Achilles region to me.
Perhaps some squat shoes will help too.
Work on the burgener warm-up every day. Don't go heavy until you can land, flat footed, in a full squat.

Your clean and jerks need a bit of tightening up. Sometimes you look a little like a house of cards where the weight isn't being stabilized well. Dropping the weight and really focusing on certain aspects of technique for a month or so will put you way ahead in the game than constantly trying to go up in weight whilst being unstable. You probably could try doing some front squats and increasing that weight a little by little to get stronger and stay on your feet. Maybe some weighted situps would also help you hold your core better too.

Also, when you bring the bar down from the jrk - try to catch it agin in that front rack position under control rather than just ghost riding it down like that. You look like you're being whipped down. So either drop the thing (no bumpers so do do it) or bring it back down by catcing it, then letting it down.
How are you learning this stuff ?
Go on youtube and follow the California strength progressions, the Mike Burgener progressions, the Greg Everett progressions (or buy his book) and simply start small, under control and really get the fundamentals down. Stability will go a long way and dancing around on the toes will not help.

I also watched one of your vids where you did a 155 Snatch fail. You almost power cleaned it so you can get the weight up, but the failure to be able to actually get under the bar with stability will prevent any progression on that lift. Even if you did get under it I doubt you could have controlled it to get it up - not consistently anyway.

NOTE: I'm just another novice lifter who's had a litany of faults over time. Almost every single one of them has had to be addressed by going back to fundamentals/progressions in an unweighted fashion ..... rinsing and repeating no less than a few 100 times each.

Cheers
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Old 08-02-2012, 03:24 PM   #6
Steve Gifford
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Re: Clean and Jerk and Snatch

I'm learning the movements just from youtube videos. I've been doing this work for couple months now. Before I started to work on this stuff I just did power snatches when the WOD asked for it. When I'm at my squat snatch and power snatch strength are basically the same. And to be honest most of the time I feel like I'm just power snatching it more than anything.

As far as the warmup I started doing that about a month ago. If you believe it this is actually a decent amount better. Before I could only do a balance with about 95 pounds, but can do a snatch pull over 200.

I'm afraid of going lighter because I really do not want to lose my strength numbers, and I feel like if I drop down my weights doing this I'm really going to suffer for it. I'm working on putting together a coaching session with an oly coach here in the next month to get someone there that can actually offer corrections while I'm doing the movements. Before I put this up the most I got was an occasional tip from a friend that also does a good amount of these lifts and is better at it than me.
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Old 08-05-2012, 02:02 AM   #7
Donald Joseph McCauley
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Re: Clean and Jerk and Snatch

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Gifford View Post
Took some video of me working up and then back down for both today. What are some things that I can be doing better to be more efficient. I've been told I pull too hard from the floor and should have a slower pull. How does that work?

C&J
http://youtu.be/7teMC6ykGoo (WFS)

Snatch
http://youtu.be/V_bCL9Y9O3c (WFS)

Yes I know I'm on my toes in the snatch, I can't seem to stay on my heels at all.
Steve,

Your lifts are fast and you are totally out of position during the set and pull.
Hips need to be lower, your back needs to stay straight, bar needs to be swept inward off the floor, pull has to be through the rear of the feet and there should be no shrug during extension.

As I put in a post above, try the three video drills at my crossfit site: www.crossfitsavannah.org. Yoiu might also try Glenn Pendlays drills.

CoachMcCauley
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Old 08-05-2012, 08:50 PM   #8
Steve Gifford
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Re: Clean and Jerk and Snatch

Thanks everyone, I've gone lighter in the snatch and been working on being more patient in my clean and jerk, setting my back beforehand and getting my hips deeper. In working on this I can feel a major difference in the process of the lifts. Tonight I couldn't hit 205, but I got up to 185 and it felt much more explosive at the hips than before. I'll work on sweeping the bar in as I'm going and keeping that core tight. I've also been working on doing the warmup every day with a pipe twice through before I start and I'm landing better than before. I know this isn't something that will get fixed right away and I appreciate your suggestions on how to perform these lifts better.
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Old 08-15-2012, 12:57 PM   #9
Mitch Medeiros
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Re: Clean and Jerk and Snatch

First off, props for putting yourself out there in hopes to get better. It can be a scary thing to say lay it all out on the table, hopefully we can help you out.

From my point of view, in both lifts, it looks like you're basically ripping a dead (with a round back, no less) off the floor instead of going through the different "pulls" or phases of the o lifts. From what I understand, the pulls can be broken down as follows...

1st pull
-bar on floor to bar just above knees
-shoulders and hips rise at the same rate
-this is "slow," controlled, methodical, whateverwordworksforyou to make you remember (think about pressing the ground away from you, rather than standing up)
-practice just this movement until you're positive your shoulders and hips move in unison

2nd pull (where you really generate power)
-the bar starts just above your knees
-keeping your feet flat, begin to move your hips forward which, in turn, brings your torso vertical
-also, begin to explode UPward through your heels/flat feet (not through toes)
-the second pull ends when you have fully opened your hips (you don't quite get there try to really stand tall at the top) which usually causes the bar to make contact with you (hip crease on the snatch, upper thighs on cleans)
-I'd recommend trying to find pulling blocks (or something similar) to pull off of. You want the bar to start at your knees, at rest. This will/should help you really learn to extend fully on this second, and very important pull

3rd pull
-this is when you pull yourself UNDER the bar
-when most people are starting, they have a tendency to let gravity do the work. However, when you learn how to yank yourself down under then bar (and land correctly) your pr's will jump up
-I practice while standing on a box under a pull up bar with small washcloths in my hand (so they can rotate freely)
-practice actively pulling yourself under the bar and landing in a balanced squat (no balance=instability=a missed lift)

I'd recommend breaking these down, one pull at a time, and I'd actually start with the second pull. The Burgner warmup does a great job training this and there is plenty of info/video out there on it.

The fact that you can finish those snatches after landing in a bad position tells me you're nowhere near your ceiling (aka, the most weight you can lift). If you start shoring up your technique yours numbers will go up quickly (and you'll be in better/safer positions).

Work on the Burgner warm up...

Then practice just the first pull (floor to above knees, repeat)...

Then practice a smooth transition in bringing it all together.

Good luck and keep us updated!

PS, Kinovea is an awesome, free software that lets you slow down your video, trace bar path, see the speed of the bar. I'm surprised it's not more popular. So, google and download it immediately. Film and watch yourself using it (there are youtube tutorials).
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Old 08-22-2012, 11:22 AM   #10
Jeffrey Crawford
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Re: Clean and Jerk and Snatch

I would say some of the trouble with the snatch postioning is not having the correct bar height to start, Looked like 25 or 35 steel plates, which puts you at a lower starting position, couple that with flexibility issues and you make it hard to get in proper postion.


You may have also been slightly distracted by the guy making love to the floor behind you.
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