Zoning and Diet Soda

Nicholas Burgett · 05-01-2006, 12:30 PM

I started CF on February 20. Starting on March 1, I gave up any and all soda for Lent, which ended on April 16. I didn't start Zoning until April 1. The reason I bring these dates up is that I've lost about 6-7% BF, but basically no weight since starting on CF. Most of that BF loss was during the month of March (about 5-6% of it).

I've been chalking up the loss in BF to CF and the intensity of the work compared to the LSD type triathlete workouts I used to exclusively perform.

I've dropped about 1-2% BF since I started Zoning but I've kind of hit a plateau. I tend to drink quite a few Diet Cokes during the day (3-4), and was wondering if that could have a deleterious effect on my body composition or could be blunting the effects of being on the Zone diet. Could this be a main reason why I'm hitting this plateau, or is my body just adjusting to the new diet and exercise regimen that I've put it through?

Any input or prior experience with this would be appreciated.

Jesse Woody · 05-01-2006, 12:41 PM

I remember Robb Wolfe citing a study that showed an insulin response with diet sodas, especially in individuals who were slightly overweight and/or insulin resistant.

There was another thread here in Nutrition not a week ago about diet sodas and artificial sweeteners. Definitely check that out as it will give you some motivation to cut the habit!

Nicholas Burgett · 05-01-2006, 02:50 PM

Thanks Jesse. I should have known that a subject like this had probably come up before. I used the search function and found it. Thanks for the referral. Now its time to quit again!

Ronnie Ashlock · 05-01-2006, 03:27 PM

Nicholas.

I stopped drinking diet sodas a year ago and after the first month, I tasted one out of curiosity. I took one sip and gagged.

Give yourself a month, maybe 2 and you will wonder why you ever started drinking soft drinks. I mainly drink water now. I still have coffee (espresso black) in the morning and a cup of green tea (with fresh ginger root) during the day, but mainly, I just have water and I feel so much better. You'll lose your taste for the soft drinks (and all artificially sweetened things) eventually if you just swear all of it off.

Charlie Jackson · 05-01-2006, 07:42 PM

Could this be a main reason why I'm hitting this plateau, or is my body just adjusting to the new diet and exercise regimen that I've put it through?

Definitely not the main reason you are hitting a plateau. Plenty of people drink regular soda full of high fructose corn syrup and lose weight. Talk to people who train for ironman triathlons or cycle for 4 hours a day. For example, read this thread:

http://www.coachgordo.com/forum2/upload/index.php?showtopic=6742&hl=cola

No reason you can't drink diet soda and lose weight. The key is exercise. If you're only doing the WOD,you need to do more exercise to burn more fat. Doesn't get any simpler.

(Message edited by cjackson on May 01, 2006)

Garrett Smith · 05-01-2006, 08:57 PM

Charlie,
My main question to you is,
Are you on this board to learn new things or only tell people things that you *think* you already "know"?

I appreciate that I may have personally educated several (maybe many lurking? I don't know) people on several subjects. I hope I at the least educated and stimulated their critical thinking. I never proclaim to know "the answer". I let them try it out. Often, they come back to the board to report the same positive results that I experienced. I experienced them first because, like all good "scientists", I tried it out on myself!

If you ever wonder why you aren't getting responses to your posts on this board, there is one main reason. It is that the major positive attribute (IMO) of this board is the "black box" approach. Theory (ie. studies, capitalism, and their vested interests) may say one thing. Real life may say something completely different. As in the (calories in = calories out) argument you posted above.

Great in theory, *bunk* in the black box. Example: compare body comp of someone taking in 2000 calories a day of meat/good fats/fruit & veggies versus someone who eats 2000 calories a day of chocolate cake (which contains fat, carbohydrates, and protein to various extents). We all know that they would look different within a month, painfully obvious within six months. Thus that theory becomes null and void. Worthless.

Non-caloric sweeteners have deeper effects than just their "calories". By stimulating the body's "sweet food" reflex, other things happen.

If you believe that eating a diet free of processed sugar *and* sugar substitutes is better than one that includes either one, you have debunked your own statement above.

I have been exercising for a long period of time, with a significant amount of effort, since age 11. The dietary changes were what shifted things for me--and now I often feel like I'm shoving food down just to maintain weight (as opposed to before, when I was eating more yet was always hungry).

People who do Ironmans or cycle 4 hours a day often can't do basic strength exercises. All of their energy intake is going into "forward" motion, not building muscle or improving health. Not what I'm looking for, not what many on this board are looking for.

It does get simpler. Stop drinking soda of any kind, sugared or unsugared. Clean up the diet even further (it becomes, technically, a "simpler" diet). Exercise a "proper" amount (scaled) for each person. Simple is not necessarily easy.

While I don't like to talk negatively, you really seem to be "trolling" this board, as I haven't seen you contribute one interesting thing that has stimulated conversation in this thread or any other. You've only regurgitated the standard, conventional (well-funded) dogma that has made this country and world so unhealthy in the first place.

Definition of trolling: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

Chris Jodlowski · 05-02-2006, 01:00 PM

Nicholas,

I don't know if diet soda is affecting your bf loss, but I can tell you this. I started out using it as a substitute for "the real thing" when I first set out to drop some weight. In fact, one of the first things I did was eliminate anything who's first two ingredients were "Filtered water, high fructose corn syrup." That's just about everything in the beverage aisle. I figured diet was an acceptable substitute. Then, for reasons not entirely clear to me, I had a little epiphany. It's pretty simple: read the label on a bottle of diet coke and ask yourself "should that be inside me." That's been enough to change my "drinking habits" to only water, milk and soy milk. )Oh, and the occasional beer - water, malted barly, hops :-)

I guess it's come down to realizing how much I work at not just getting into shape, but being healthier in general. Then asking myself if it's worth it to rot my guts from the inside out in the meantime.

Hope that helps. :-)

Nicholas Burgett · 05-02-2006, 05:54 PM

Thanks all for your comments.

Chris, I agree with the sentiment about reading the label and seeing the phrase, "contains phenylketonuerics". Now I'm an educated man, but I've got no idea what the hell a phenylketonueric is other than it has the prefix "phenyl" which I remember from Chem Lab.

That being said, as it is with anything, quitting is in the doing, not the talking. I just have to remind myself of all the positive things I've got going in my life and balance those against all of the negative, unhealthy foods, habits, activities, etc, that pull at me daily.

Ronnie, I agree. I just need to give it some time to get the habit of drinking them out of my system.

Charlie, it's interesting that you bring up the idea of Ironman triathletes or cyclists. I happen to be an Ironman triathlete, and I can definitely tell you that while I was working out 2-3 hours a day, I was also eating whatever I felt like eating (and drinking copious amounts of diet coke). I was about 10 pounds lighter when I did my Ironman than I am now. However, I'm almost positive that because of my new diet and new fitness regimen (Zone and CF WOD w/ triathlon specific training) that I've probably got more lean body mass now than when I raced back in November. That's one of the main reasons why I asked. I started looking around at my dietary habits from back then and the only one that is still around is the diet soda, ergo the curiousity about it's potential effects.

James Falkner · 05-02-2006, 06:09 PM

Ugh.. I'm addicted to diet sodas. Anyone have any research showing an insulin response to diet sodas? I drink the caffeine-free diet coke mostly, so I'm sure I'm poisoning myself. I need research to kick the habit, though..

On the plus side, I think not drinking sugary stuff does wonders for your oral hygiene and teeth!

James Falkner · 05-02-2006, 06:15 PM

heh, GIMF

http://www.mercola.com/2005/jun/30/diet_sodas.htm

but then...

http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/aspartame.asp

I'm sure there are tons more "yes, diet is bad" coupled with "no, no danger". Hmm.. I guess I should just stop drinking them for a few months and see what happens eh?

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05-01-2006, 12:30 PM	#1
Nicholas Burgett Member Profile: Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: San Antonio TX Posts: 489	I started CF on February 20. Starting on March 1, I gave up any and all soda for Lent, which ended on April 16. I didn't start Zoning until April 1. The reason I bring these dates up is that I've lost about 6-7% BF, but basically no weight since starting on CF. Most of that BF loss was during the month of March (about 5-6% of it). I've been chalking up the loss in BF to CF and the intensity of the work compared to the LSD type triathlete workouts I used to exclusively perform. I've dropped about 1-2% BF since I started Zoning but I've kind of hit a plateau. I tend to drink quite a few Diet Cokes during the day (3-4), and was wondering if that could have a deleterious effect on my body composition or could be blunting the effects of being on the Zone diet. Could this be a main reason why I'm hitting this plateau, or is my body just adjusting to the new diet and exercise regimen that I've put it through? Any input or prior experience with this would be appreciated.

05-01-2006, 12:41 PM	#2
Jesse Woody Affiliate Profile: Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Orange Virginia Posts: 915	I remember Robb Wolfe citing a study that showed an insulin response with diet sodas, especially in individuals who were slightly overweight and/or insulin resistant. There was another thread here in Nutrition not a week ago about diet sodas and artificial sweeteners. Definitely check that out as it will give you some motivation to cut the habit!

05-01-2006, 02:50 PM	#3
Nicholas Burgett Member Profile: Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: San Antonio TX Posts: 489	Thanks Jesse. I should have known that a subject like this had probably come up before. I used the search function and found it. Thanks for the referral. Now its time to quit again!

05-01-2006, 03:27 PM	#4
Ronnie Ashlock Member Profile: Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Renton WA Posts: 115	Nicholas. I stopped drinking diet sodas a year ago and after the first month, I tasted one out of curiosity. I took one sip and gagged. Give yourself a month, maybe 2 and you will wonder why you ever started drinking soft drinks. I mainly drink water now. I still have coffee (espresso black) in the morning and a cup of green tea (with fresh ginger root) during the day, but mainly, I just have water and I feel so much better. You'll lose your taste for the soft drinks (and all artificially sweetened things) eventually if you just swear all of it off.

05-01-2006, 07:42 PM	#5
Charlie Jackson Banned Profile: Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Santa Carlos New Mexico Posts: 204	Could this be a main reason why I'm hitting this plateau, or is my body just adjusting to the new diet and exercise regimen that I've put it through? Definitely not the main reason you are hitting a plateau. Plenty of people drink regular soda full of high fructose corn syrup and lose weight. Talk to people who train for ironman triathlons or cycle for 4 hours a day. For example, read this thread: http://www.coachgordo.com/forum2/upload/index.php?showtopic=6742&hl=cola No reason you can't drink diet soda and lose weight. The key is exercise. If you're only doing the WOD,you need to do more exercise to burn more fat. Doesn't get any simpler. (Message edited by cjackson on May 01, 2006)

05-01-2006, 08:57 PM	#6
Garrett Smith Member Profile: Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 2,264	Charlie, My main question to you is, Are you on this board to learn new things or only tell people things that you think you already "know"? I appreciate that I may have personally educated several (maybe many lurking? I don't know) people on several subjects. I hope I at the least educated and stimulated their critical thinking. I never proclaim to know "the answer". I let them try it out. Often, they come back to the board to report the same positive results that I experienced. I experienced them first because, like all good "scientists", I tried it out on myself! If you ever wonder why you aren't getting responses to your posts on this board, there is one main reason. It is that the major positive attribute (IMO) of this board is the "black box" approach. Theory (ie. studies, capitalism, and their vested interests) may say one thing. Real life may say something completely different. As in the (calories in = calories out) argument you posted above. Great in theory, bunk in the black box. Example: compare body comp of someone taking in 2000 calories a day of meat/good fats/fruit & veggies versus someone who eats 2000 calories a day of chocolate cake (which contains fat, carbohydrates, and protein to various extents). We all know that they would look different within a month, painfully obvious within six months. Thus that theory becomes null and void. Worthless. Non-caloric sweeteners have deeper effects than just their "calories". By stimulating the body's "sweet food" reflex, other things happen. If you believe that eating a diet free of processed sugar and sugar substitutes is better than one that includes either one, you have debunked your own statement above. I have been exercising for a long period of time, with a significant amount of effort, since age 11. The dietary changes were what shifted things for me--and now I often feel like I'm shoving food down just to maintain weight (as opposed to before, when I was eating more yet was always hungry). People who do Ironmans or cycle 4 hours a day often can't do basic strength exercises. All of their energy intake is going into "forward" motion, not building muscle or improving health. Not what I'm looking for, not what many on this board are looking for. It does get simpler. Stop drinking soda of any kind, sugared or unsugared. Clean up the diet even further (it becomes, technically, a "simpler" diet). Exercise a "proper" amount (scaled) for each person. Simple is not necessarily easy. While I don't like to talk negatively, you really seem to be "trolling" this board, as I haven't seen you contribute one interesting thing that has stimulated conversation in this thread or any other. You've only regurgitated the standard, conventional (well-funded) dogma that has made this country and world so unhealthy in the first place. Definition of trolling: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

05-02-2006, 01:00 PM	#7
Chris Jodlowski Member Profile: Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Hopewell Junction NY Posts: 39	Nicholas, I don't know if diet soda is affecting your bf loss, but I can tell you this. I started out using it as a substitute for "the real thing" when I first set out to drop some weight. In fact, one of the first things I did was eliminate anything who's first two ingredients were "Filtered water, high fructose corn syrup." That's just about everything in the beverage aisle. I figured diet was an acceptable substitute. Then, for reasons not entirely clear to me, I had a little epiphany. It's pretty simple: read the label on a bottle of diet coke and ask yourself "should that be inside me." That's been enough to change my "drinking habits" to only water, milk and soy milk. )Oh, and the occasional beer - water, malted barly, hops :-) I guess it's come down to realizing how much I work at not just getting into shape, but being healthier in general. Then asking myself if it's worth it to rot my guts from the inside out in the meantime. Hope that helps. :-)

05-02-2006, 05:54 PM	#8
Nicholas Burgett Member Profile: Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: San Antonio TX Posts: 489	Thanks all for your comments. Chris, I agree with the sentiment about reading the label and seeing the phrase, "contains phenylketonuerics". Now I'm an educated man, but I've got no idea what the hell a phenylketonueric is other than it has the prefix "phenyl" which I remember from Chem Lab. That being said, as it is with anything, quitting is in the doing, not the talking. I just have to remind myself of all the positive things I've got going in my life and balance those against all of the negative, unhealthy foods, habits, activities, etc, that pull at me daily. Ronnie, I agree. I just need to give it some time to get the habit of drinking them out of my system. Charlie, it's interesting that you bring up the idea of Ironman triathletes or cyclists. I happen to be an Ironman triathlete, and I can definitely tell you that while I was working out 2-3 hours a day, I was also eating whatever I felt like eating (and drinking copious amounts of diet coke). I was about 10 pounds lighter when I did my Ironman than I am now. However, I'm almost positive that because of my new diet and new fitness regimen (Zone and CF WOD w/ triathlon specific training) that I've probably got more lean body mass now than when I raced back in November. That's one of the main reasons why I asked. I started looking around at my dietary habits from back then and the only one that is still around is the diet soda, ergo the curiousity about it's potential effects.

05-02-2006, 06:09 PM	#9
James Falkner Member Profile: Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Orlando FL Posts: 608	Ugh.. I'm addicted to diet sodas. Anyone have any research showing an insulin response to diet sodas? I drink the caffeine-free diet coke mostly, so I'm sure I'm poisoning myself. I need research to kick the habit, though.. On the plus side, I think not drinking sugary stuff does wonders for your oral hygiene and teeth!

05-02-2006, 06:15 PM	#10
James Falkner Member Profile: Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Orlando FL Posts: 608	heh, GIMF http://www.mercola.com/2005/jun/30/diet_sodas.htm but then... http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/aspartame.asp I'm sure there are tons more "yes, diet is bad" coupled with "no, no danger". Hmm.. I guess I should just stop drinking them for a few months and see what happens eh?