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Old 06-30-2006, 10:07 PM   #1
Kevin Kaeating
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okay so im now close to my goal at 8.3 bf % and am looking to add some muscle , i tried 2x fat for a few days and jumped quickly up to 9 almost 10 % bf so that doesnt work, added 2 blocks now at 21 and am still losing fat but not gaining muscle, i cant eat much more than this a day any suggestions?
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Old 06-30-2006, 11:21 PM   #2
Adrian Bozman
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Just like on any other diet/eating scheme, there is no magic...start upping the block count (week by week) until you see some lean bodymass developement. If you start to notice a dramatic increase in bodyfat, you're consuming too much.

Also, an increase of 1-2% bodyfat is probably nothing to worry about. Most people do not have an accurate enough means of measuring bodyfat to be concerned over 1%...I'm sure if you checked periodically throughout the day, you'd fluctuate at least 1-2% based on caliper/tanita scale readings. The mirror is going to be your best measuring device.
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Old 07-01-2006, 12:34 AM   #3
Kevin Kaeating
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thanks, ya i just dont know if i can eat anymore in one day 5 5 5 5 is hard enough, but i use digital caliper pretty damn accurate to the mm, so just add food eh hmm
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Old 07-01-2006, 04:41 AM   #4
Nick Cummings
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I'm eating 25-30 blocks at 3x fat, it can be done. (=
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Old 07-01-2006, 08:12 AM   #5
Kevin Kaeating
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nick what is your scheme for food blocks per day? 555555?
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Old 07-01-2006, 09:24 AM   #6
Jonathon Edward
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Kevin,

If you decide that you cannot, or more appropriately will not, eat more each day than you simply will not add any muscle size. Sure, it's a pain in the ***, your food bill will go up, and you'll find yourself stuffing your face when you're not hungry, but that's what it takes. Honestly you just have weigh the pro (getting bigger) vs. the con (eating more food) and decide if the good outweighs the bad.

I second what Adrian said - it's very unlikely that you actually gained 1-2% bodyfat over a period of a few days. We're talking literal pounds of fat being gained in an unfathomably short period of time. Sure it's possible, but you'd probably have to stuff your face with Krispy Kremes and Big Macs all day long to accomplish that feat. Try not to get too obsessive about the whole bodyfat number thing. While it's possible to gain muscle while maintaining your bodyfat level, it's no easy task. IMHO, you're better off setting an upper limit (say 10%) and allowing yourself to gain a bit of bodyfat while adding a good deal of muscle. Just some thoughts...
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Old 07-01-2006, 09:57 AM   #7
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If you really want to gain muscle, you're going to have to make some compromises like everyone has mentioned. Namely eating obscene amounts of food when you don't want to and allowing a reasonable increase in BF.

Keep in mind a somewhat elevated BF level means increased levels of circulating IGF-1, so it can be a pretty potent anabolic environment. And as far as eating goes, you may find it necessary to supplement with protein powder in addition to ramping your fat way up. You may also want to consider dropping your carb intake significantly and doing more of a cyclic low-carb approach. The Zone is definitely not the ideal weight gain setup.
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Old 07-01-2006, 08:49 PM   #8
Matthew Scoble
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Greg- Not to highjack the thread, but of the different cyclic low-carb protocols (NHE, MD, etc.) is there one that you feel is most effective at muscle building and/or easiest to implement?

Matt
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Old 07-02-2006, 08:51 AM   #9
Elliot Royce
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Two points: with different levels of hydration, your body weight can vary and hence your BF % (plus if you use electro-impedance measurement, it changes your conductivity). I'm sure many of us have noticed that you drop a lot of weight after intense exercise. I drop about 5lbs after an hour of hockey and that's not fat or muscle disappearing - it's water. Even sleeping, I drop around 3lbs. So small changes in BF are insignificant.

On the bulking diet, I'm trying to follow Zone principles but with increased protein and fat. Here's the mix from 2 days ago (www.fitday.com is a great way to measure this, thanks to Chris Forbis for the suggestion). First column is grams and second is calories.
Total: 4362cal
Fat: 228g 2051c 47%
Sat: 61 550 13%
Poly: 26 233 5%
Mono: 122 1097 25%
Carbs: 285 961 22%
Fiber: 44 0 0%
Protein: 259 1035 24%

By my rough calculation, that's around 70 fat blocks, 29 carb blocks and 35 protein blocks.

Clearly there's enough protein for muscle growth and enough carbs for energy. The fat is mostly monosaturated from olive oil. My theory is that when I want to go back to leaning out, it will be easy to drop the fat back down: I never get cravings for olive oil and my stomach won't have expanded to accommodate the bulk of food I'd be eating if I relied on carbs for the increase. And of course the Zone would say that the fat is less likely to convert to body fat.

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Old 07-02-2006, 11:29 AM   #10
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matthew - i haven't seen any partcular clc diet work better than any other. i think they're all so similar that ultimately they produce pretty much the same results. that said, each person may prefer a certain protocol over another, so i would say experiment and see what works for you.
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