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Old 07-18-2010, 08:40 PM   #11
Greg Kemp
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Re: Thoughts on 2010 Individual Events?

The Sandbag WOD was good for the big guys as well as the 205 lbs clean, but the addition of the ring HSPU made it difficult for the big guys to get ahead. I would agree that the WOD's favored the middle sized guys (170 to 190 lbs) and all of the guys over 200 lbs (except Chan) seemed to move up in the rankings.

No rowing in any of the WOD's. I figured that rowing would have be a given at some point over the weekend.

Overall I watched almost the entire thing via live feed and it was awesome to watch. Great quality video on the computer and my iPhone. I can only imagine that all of the athletes hands look like hamburger after this weekend. Crossfit put on a great event
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Old 07-18-2010, 08:56 PM   #12
Jason Ashman
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Re: Thoughts on 2010 Individual Events?

Thought the Games were entertaining to watch, but the events didn't really run the gamut of testing skills across the board. On the other hand, you're likely going to get that debate every year, regardless.

I agree with the sandbag event being a great idea, even if it did look thrown together. I'll throw the burpee WOD in with it as well. Unfortunately, IMO the programming focused WAY too much overall on using the mainstream Crossfit components. There's a lot of debate right now about whether being good at Crossfit only makes you good at Crossfit, not the unknown and unknowable; A weekend of people doing events that weren't typical Crossfit workouts would have put that debate to rest, not to mention (if the sandbag WOD is any indication) being even more entertaining.

At the other end, I thought, production-wise, the Games leave a LOT to be desired. From the livecast, it looked horribly run, as though folks were running around with no idea what was going on, nor what was coming next. And by that, I don't mean the competitors; The staff looked clueless- hell, Progenex didn't even know the name of the girl who won; HOW DO YOU MAKE THAT MISTAKE? And how could you announce a "big tradition" of having last year's affiliate winner present this years winner with champagne, without making sure there was someone around to actually carry it out? There was stuff like this every time I watched; the closing ceremonies (Is "See you next year!" and cutting out a "closing ceremony"?) is just the last stuff I remember.

Unfortunately, Dave Castro just isn't cut out to host the Games. It was like watching amateur hour out there. The stumbling, the horrible instruction, the terse off-mic comments that were picked up. The rather arrogant demeanor. It comes off horribly, and looks incredibly unprofessional. A tip; If you want someone to move off the podium, try "How bout a nice hand for our competitors as they leave the podium" instead of a harsh "Move over there!" as you lower the mic?? The fact that he could barely speak by yesterday afternoon didn't help matters much, either. A host should be smooth, always quick, and capable of dealing with anything. Dave seemed incapable of anything other than a scowl, and anything that didn't go perfectly seemed to throw him off his game. Not the best traits for a host.

However, I loved listening to Boz explain the WODs- he has a natural gift for it that carries over from the Boz & Todd vids, and his explanations were clear and concise, and didn't leave people around me asking "What are they doing next?" You're broadcasting now, folks; There's people watching. You have to make sure EVERYONE knows and understands what the speaker is talking about, not just the guy doing the talking. Boz does this well, and should continue doing it going forward.

Additionally, someone hire Jen Hunter-Marshall for commentary next year; Listening to her do colour commentary last night was a treat indeed. She has a smooth voice and delivery, relates from the views of both an athlete and a coach, and keeps the pace of conversation moving, even if she has to move off-topic (including a nice segway using Atlanta accents). Well done.

It's simple personnel allocation; Some folks are perfect for public consumption, while others are best left behind the scenes. Allocate properly.

BTW: Where the heck was Coach Glassman? I saw a fair bit of the Games, and never saw the dude once. Hell, he wasn't even mentioned during the closing ceremonies. Am I missing something here?
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Old 07-18-2010, 08:57 PM   #13
David Meverden
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Re: Thoughts on 2010 Individual Events?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Mercurio View Post
-Ill be one to disagree. If you included another 1RM test of strength, you would need to include a long endurance event to balance out the events this weekend. Which would have looked exactly like last year's games. Which is exactly what everyone trained for.
I think this is a valid viewpoint to bring up. The only question it raises for me is: Do the games HAVE to be significantly different every year? Some formats will be inherently superior tests of fitness; if one is found, should we abandon such a superior test simply to be different from last year?
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Old 07-18-2010, 09:11 PM   #14
Daniel Lyell
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Re: Thoughts on 2010 Individual Events?

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Originally Posted by Steven Low View Post

I would've rather chopped one of the couplet events and put in a 5k / 1-3 RM event instead (or vice versa with the ordering).
Dead on

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Originally Posted by David Meverden View Post
Regarding 5K:
My buddy was like "what if they get done with the toes-to-bar overhead workout and then Dave Castro goes: 'run 10k. Out the door, marked in red. 3, 2, 1, go"

Could you imagine? That would be a crazy kick in the pants.

Regarding Power Cleans:
They already had power cleans, which is why I voted back squats. OH, OH! You know what would be cool and a GREAT test of strength? A giant row of tires of increasing weight. Seven minutes to flip the heaviest one you can, only heaviest weight counts. Especially with NO prep time that would be really cool to watch, though logistics would be a problem. Dude, that's it. That's what I want. Next year I want a gravel shoveling event and a max weight tire flip event.
Thats one of the best suggestions for a CF test of strength I've ever heard. How can you dismiss the functionality of that? Awesome idea.
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Old 07-18-2010, 09:14 PM   #15
Jon Houle
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Re: Thoughts on 2010 Individual Events?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Mercurio View Post
Ill be one to disagree. If you included another 1RM test of strength, you would need to include a long endurance event to balance out the events this weekend. Which would have looked exactly like last year's games. Which is exactly what everyone trained for.
I also have to agree with you Joe. Repeating event formats would make things very predictable for the most part.

Anyways, as I've said before it would have been cool to see some sprints since they had a track handy. How about some 100m or 400m or a 100m and 400m back to back with like 1min rest between the two. They had the facilities to do this for sure and it would have been a quick event running 8 guys/girls at the same time.

Apart from that, I think a few of the 'non-traditional' workout were awesome. I thought the sandbag event was awesome (even though Speal was at a real disadvantage here) and the rope climb/wall climbs threw in a different component. I think more of the games should be composed of these truly unknown and unknowable events including the format of last event (or 3 events how ever you look at it). Just make sure Castro is actually timing himself between rounds instead of being like: blah blah blah, 3-2-1-GO!
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Old 07-18-2010, 09:23 PM   #16
Shane Skowron
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Re: Thoughts on 2010 Individual Events?

Things I liked:
  • snatch/muscle-up metcon - that's beastly
  • lots of different movements - T2B, pistols, wall climbs, rope climbs, pushups
  • the athletes, cause they're impressive
  • the idea of not telling the athletes what the workouts were until right before. however I think there should have been a whiteboard or something so they could see what they had to do, because just listening to Dave Castro in a sea of shouting fans was probably not the best idea.


Things I didn't like:
  • no speed events. would have liked to see a 100m-400m run or 500m row. It's impossible to test speed in a metcon because any fraction of a second faster that someone would be over the next competitor would be lost if for example he was a few seconds slower on the next movement. So there's no reason whatsoever to go at max speed in a metcon.
  • no raw endurance events. Would have liked to see a run-row-run or just a row, run, or ruck march individually. The run within the Helen-esque workout was inadequate. Reason being is because you can win that workout and be a really poor runner.
  • inadequate raw strength events. Shoulder to overhead test is good, and I like the idea of having it immediately after another workout, but we still need some more tests. A max effort C&J or deadlift. Or something like most poundage deadlifted in 8 seconds.
  • metcons were too similar.
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Old 07-18-2010, 09:34 PM   #17
Shane Skowron
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Re: Thoughts on 2010 Individual Events?

Oh yeah and the web coverage was surprisingly good.
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Old 07-18-2010, 10:59 PM   #18
Justin McCallon
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Re: Thoughts on 2010 Individual Events?

I agree with the majority-view on just about everything here.

Likes
-Getting rid of DNF's - DNF's are arbitrary. Cutting competitors entirely from the competition for not finishing is dumb. Side note exception: If I were Mike G (or a couple of the other guys that did terrible in the double Helen), I would have done absolutely nothing while people were doing Helen. Maybe a couple HSPU's. Then, at 25:00, I would have walked over to the weights, and hit a big weight on the Jerk. Using Mike as an example, I think he got 43rd and then like 15th = 58. His PR C&J is around 290. If he hit 280 he would have finished 3rd (I think), and would have received 45+3 = 48, a much better score. Note that this if fixed with a reasonable scoring system.
-Sandbag Event - Love the task events.
-Wall Scales, Rope Climbs and Running - Again, task events. I like these because (a) all the athletes do the same work, (b) the events mimic real life, sports, etc., and (c) there's no (or at least very little) judgment BS. You either touched the top of the rope or you didn't.
Judging - It was very good. Tough judges. The only thing that seemed a bit off was that first affiliate event with the girl on the thrusters. Otherwise pretty legit, and judging is hard for these events.


Middle
90s Max Overhead - Good idea with testing 1rm with a high heart rate. I am becoming more convinced that it's a cool test of an athlete's ability to think, come up with a plan, make a good estimate, and execute in a good time. But, I also think it involved a bit of luck. Some athletes (i.e. Mike G) got lucky and hit a tough lift. Others (i.e. Spencer Hendel) just missed one. Those misses cost something like 25 ranks. There are other ways this could have been tested to get rid of the luck factor, in my opinion.
-Coverage - They did a good job getting a lot of cameras out there. Awesome stadium, cool deal getting the track, pretty good stream, HD ... I thought all that was great. It looked better than I expected it to.
That said, I don't think it was up to the level of Strongman coverage on ESPN. The announcing was frustratingly bad. The announcers kept regurgitating CF-HQ crap. At one point one of them called their competitors the "most elite athletes in the world." They horribly overused the word "athlete." Most of what they said was way the hell off. And, they should have known a bit more about the people competing. The people interviewing the competitors were not at the level of a Pam Oliver or Erin Andrews (I mean in the way that they "asked" questions). I hate to be too critical, though, because it seems like they just told the girls to go run around with a microphone. Pat Sherwood wasn't too bad given the audience, and Josh Everett was very on point. Someone like Greg Everett or Mark Rippetoe would be good, but obviously not them specifically. Just people that know what they are talking about would be nice.
-The general idea of each of the CF events - Taken individually, I like these. I don't think there should be many, if any, traditional CrossFit events in the Games, but in the case that they do have them, I think the ideas were good. Almost all of them tested full body, tough, challenging movements, and they paired a heavy lift with a tough bodyweight movement for most of the events. Cool.
That said, there were too many of these events. They also used weight that was too light. The time spent on the weights vs. the bodyweight stuff, for the average competitor, was not very close to 1:1. It was very much in favor of the smaller guys. What was interesting, though, was that in some instances people like Tommy Hackenbruck, Matt Chan, or Moe Kelsey were able to do very well at the bodyweight movements that they should have really struggled with.

Dislikes
Lack of Pure Strength Event - Nearly every event was a mixed-modal 4-8 minute event testing someone's cardio ability when moving a moderately heavy load. There's more to "broad time and modal domains" than that.
Too many CF movements - Would prefer to see real-world events. I like the task events. I also think it's BS that for about 3/4 of the events, someone like Spealler does significantly less work than someone like Moe Kelsey. That doesn't happen in almost any other sport. It's reasonable that Spealler does less work when he runs because he's carrying less weight -- that happens in the real world. But kettlebell swings, push-ups, etc. is unfair.
Scoring - Won't get into it.
Lack of Finesse - Different rest breaks for different groups in the final event? Generally trying to push the "I'm a badass and I barely care" deal when instructing the competitors? Lame. Maybe I'm being biased because I like Greg Everett.
Disregard for Safety - Another one of those "we're CF and we're so tough that we don't care about safety" deals. I think we need to get over this. Somebody is going to eventually get seriously hurt and there's no reason for it. I'm usually big on the whole "man up" and "don't be a *****" thing, but having 20ft rope climbs as the 9th event and third event in a series was really over-the-top. No padding? Come on. They're going to get sued and lose a lot of money, and do a lot of *****ing about it.


Would like to see
I think every CF Games needs to have at least 1 pure strength and 1 pure endurance event. I'd also like to see: Throws, more Strongman-style events (I like the tire flip idea a lot), Sprints (erg or track), Hurdles, High Jump, Long Jump, and some kind of legitimate short-distance agility test. With the exception of the Sandbag Hill run last year (which I liked a lot), there haven't been any CF events in the 10-60s time domain. I'd like to see some legit speed events. The movements and weights don't matter as much to me -- you can display speed across many "modal domains" and it would be interesting.
Just in general I think we should see a bigger mix of things that get away from typical CF stuff. Something like a Discus throw would obviously favor someone with experience there. But, if there were several varied events (field events, track events, strongman events, gymnastic/parkour events, football/soccer-type events, etc) then it should even out.
It's not reasonably possible to become proficient at every one of ~10 major lifts, have good muscle endurance across ~40 movements, have great cardio/strength in general, etc. They can cycle through the different lifts and have various ways of testing (1rm, 3rm, 3 attempts, 5 minutes, 10 minutes, max reps at a heavy weight, etc.) to keep from making things too easy to "game."
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Last edited by Justin McCallon : 07-18-2010 at 11:08 PM.
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Old 07-19-2010, 03:39 AM   #19
Dimitri Dziabenko
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Re: Thoughts on 2010 Individual Events?

Fun: sandbags, ropes, etc.., fun movements, HD coverage, athletes.

Not fun: Commentators, gosh they were painful to listen to. Knowledgability. Some dude actually said power = force/distance...common. Too much CF HQ propaganda. Some very boring events. Honestly, I dont think the wider public will enjoy watching people knocking out hundreds of reps with a light-moderate kettlebell. Hell, I know its a hard workout, and I was superbored. Build up 4 of those walls on the track and have them run 5k, climbing over the wall, or whatever. I unno, something fun, dont make them knock out hundreds of reps

More task based fitness (moving weight, sequence of barbells, flipping tires, etc...), and less 7 rounds for time of. More 1RM/heavy stuff. Since when are 315lb deadlifts/205lb cleans the mark of the world`s fittest man. Sometimes I feel like they just made it light enough for Speal to have a chance. How about some 255lb cleans, 405lb deadlifts. Just saying.

Castro was too amateurish.
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Old 07-19-2010, 03:58 AM   #20
Dave Hardy
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Re: Thoughts on 2010 Individual Events?

Quote:
I also have to agree with you Joe. Repeating event formats would make things very predictable for the most part.
But not repeating exact events. If you knew there was going to be one endurance event but you didn't know what it was, there's still a lot of room for guesswork.

Distance rowing, running, swimming, hiking might all favour favour different competitors.
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