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Old 07-18-2010, 01:42 PM   #11
Gaines DuVall
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Re: Something seems different. re: The Games

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Originally Posted by Kyle Ngo View Post
Yes there is.
Was there drug testing at the sectionals & regionals? Or is it just after the games are completed?
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Old 07-18-2010, 02:22 PM   #12
Justin McCallon
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Re: Something seems different. re: The Games

No steroid testing at Sectionals and not at my Regional (Southeast).

The stronger competitors weren't slowed down by any of the weights with the exception of Khalipa in the Snatch in the first event (it's a technical lift and the weight wasn't an issue).

The bigger competitors were slowed down by the bodyweight stuff, which was consistently harder than weights, imo. The weights each time were basically the heaviest weight that someone like Spealler could hit without slowing down much, whereas the bodyweight stuff was manageable only by a few of the athletes each time. If the Deadlifts/Cleans/Snatches were about 20lbs heavier it would have shaken things up a lot. That said, I think the individual events were good, but there should have been a real 1rm event.

And as far as the max overhead, the guys had only 90s to lift and they were exhausted. Lots of underperformances since nobody knew what they could hit and a lot of them played it safe.


Also, the heat sucks. We had a linked event at my Regional and I couldn't recover because of the heat.
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Old 07-18-2010, 04:32 PM   #13
Andrew Bell
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Re: Something seems different. re: The Games

There really was no pure, rested test of all out strength. 90 seconds to throw up a max effort press after that Helen type workout is a pain, but it isn't a good judgment of a 1RM (although watching DJ get that last lift and then walk away was just awsome).

I think they should have a 4 or 5 minute limit to do the CF Total at the the start of something (maybe a 3600m run or something). Seems all out strength was always AFTER some met con which isn't a good way to test a 1RM.

Who ever can finish the last 3 workouts though is a beast.
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Old 07-18-2010, 05:04 PM   #14
Júlíus Magnússon
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Re: Something seems different. re: The Games

The thing is, Castro/Glassman/whoever, don't care about your rested 1RM. They care about the kinda of numbers you can put up while in a severely fatigued state.

Which makes perfect sense to me from a "functional" standpoint. CrossFit is all about the "unknown and unknowable" and you never know when you have to lift a heavy weight. You may have to do it in extremely stressful situation in which case no one cares what you can do fresh. They care what you can do stressed and fatigued.
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Old 07-18-2010, 05:09 PM   #15
Kieran Barry
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Re: Something seems different. re: The Games

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There really was no pure, rested test of all out strength. 90 seconds to throw up a max effort press after that Helen type workout is a pain, but it isn't a good judgment of a 1RM (although watching DJ get that last lift and then walk away was just awsome).

I think they should have a 4 or 5 minute limit to do the CF Total at the the start of something (maybe a 3600m run or something). Seems all out strength was always AFTER some met con which isn't a good way to test a 1RM.

Who ever can finish the last 3 workouts though is a beast.
Although I agree that strength was underplayed, I'm going to disagree because someone has to.

How can you do a CFT in 6 minutes? It calls for 9 close-to-max-effort lifts (unless the spec written by Rip gets written out of history.)

I actually like the idea of the 90 second 1RM, but only in parallel to a genuine test of strength. I think it requires someone who is smart, and adaptable. I'd prefer to give up 2% on fitness if I gain 20% in speed of thought and general adaptability.
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Old 07-18-2010, 05:12 PM   #16
Justin McCallon
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Re: Something seems different. re: The Games

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Originally Posted by Júlíus Magnússon View Post
The thing is, Castro/Glassman/whoever, don't care about your rested 1RM. They care about the kinda of numbers you can put up while in a severely fatigued state.

Which makes perfect sense to me from a "functional" standpoint. CrossFit is all about the "unknown and unknowable" and you never know when you have to lift a heavy weight. You may have to do it in extremely stressful situation in which case no one cares what you can do fresh. They care what you can do stressed and fatigued.
That's what they're going to say as their reasoning. I think it's worth testing the ability to move a very heavy weight at a high heart rate. But, so is testing pure max strength.

If you're going to test broad time and modal domains, then you should be testing short time domains and not just 4-12 minute domains. Saying that you need to be prepared for unknown and unknowable is not a legit excuse. There are tons of real world instances where you need true raw power.
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Old 07-18-2010, 05:15 PM   #17
Justin McCallon
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Re: Something seems different. re: The Games

The 90s 1rm thing took smart thinking, but it also took a substantial amount of luck. Some people went heavy and missed it; others went heavy and hit it (i.e. Mike G).

It's a cool test, but I think they should have done something more like this:

Set up 5 bars per competitor. 185, 225, 265, 285, and give the athletes 30s to hit each one. Then, instead of moving on to the next bar, they can have the choice to spend the remaining 30s repping out on the bar they're on to break ties.
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Old 07-18-2010, 05:16 PM   #18
Stephen Flamm
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Re: Something seems different. re: The Games

I actually thought that the last event would be:

5:00 to establish 1RM in back squat
5:00 to establish 1RM in shoulder press
5:00 to establish 1RM in deadlift

Oh well. Guys like Rob and Jason probably would have fared better if any of the weights used in the metcons would have been heavier. 135 is simply not heavy for a snatch. 315 is not heavy for a deadlift. 205 is not heavy for a clean. Even in metcons with the rep schemes that were in play. This year simply wasn't about pure strength.

If Spealler had won, I think you could make a legitimate claim that the wrong man won, simply because he obviously would have had one of, if not the, lowest strength levels. But that is not the case. Graham wins, Rich gets second. These are the guys who should have won - tremendous strength, very few weaknesses. In Graham's case, I don't think he really has a weakness, and would likely have won even if the weights had been heavier or a 1RM test had made it in.
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Old 07-18-2010, 05:23 PM   #19
Kieran Barry
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Re: Something seems different. re: The Games

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Originally Posted by Justin McCallon View Post
The 90s 1rm thing took smart thinking, but it also took a substantial amount of luck. Some people went heavy and missed it; others went heavy and hit it (i.e. Mike G).

It's a cool test, but I think they should have done something more like this:

Set up 5 bars per competitor. 185, 225, 265, 285, and give the athletes 30s to hit each one. Then, instead of moving on to the next bar, they can have the choice to spend the remaining 30s repping out on the bar they're on to break ties.
I was going to say something smart-***, but actually that would be a good idea too.

I just like the idea of a limited time 1RM, or 3RM or whatever. I like the idea of multiple decision points, requiring knowledge of personal ability. But not as a figleaf excuse for a test of strength.

Let's see what happens. No-one has ever held Castro to account for the insane debacle which was 17 men finishing =1 and all getting a 1 in the DL in 2009. Assigning 17 points instead on 1+2+...+17 = 153 probably got Speal cut for the final day last year. If the community decides that the games tests and scoring were bogus, then the games might be better next year.
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Old 07-18-2010, 06:15 PM   #20
Andrew Bell
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Re: Something seems different. re: The Games

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The thing is, Castro/Glassman/whoever, don't care about your rested 1RM. They care about the kinda of numbers you can put up while in a severely fatigued state.
I disagree because often on the .com 1RM comes up.

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Which makes perfect sense to me from a "functional" standpoint. CrossFit is all about the "unknown and unknowable" and you never know when you have to lift a heavy weight. You may have to do it in extremely stressful situation in which case no one cares what you can do fresh. They care what you can do stressed and fatigued.
First off I think no matter what anything this weekend the competitors were stressed and fatigued. None the less, you make an argument against yourself, you right in that you do never know when you'll have to lift a heavy weight, but you may only have to do it once, and that was not tested at all this weekend.
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