CrossFit Discussion Board  

Go Back   CrossFit Discussion Board > CrossFit Forum > Nutrition
CrossFit Home Forum Site Rules CrossFit FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Nutrition Diet, supplements, weightloss, health & longevity

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-13-2009, 07:05 PM   #1
Michael Cordell
Member Michael Cordell is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Santa Barbara  CA
Posts: 6
Zone Help - Hard Gainer/Fat intake

Hey Guys,
I tried to search for this but it kicked backed a zillion results and a bunch of logs.
My Situation: 155-160lbs 6'0, I'm fairly certain my lean body mass is about 140 or so. My body fat % is probably 7-10, based on the rough guide in Mastering the zone. Being cross fitting for 1 1/2 years, with a SS break.

Its a struggle to keep weight on. Being doing zone for about a week and a half. I'm doing zone to clean up my diet which was just trash, tons of sugar and carbs. I read Mastering the Zone and article 21.
I'm currently doing B: 4b L:4b S1:2b D:4b S2:2b = 16b

Questions:
1) Where do I fit into the type chart? Should I modify the amount and split of my blocks? I really don't want to lose any weight (hopefully gain).

2)According to the CFJ article 21/body it says that if you are not trying to lose weight you should be taking in "x blocks carbs, X blocks protien, and 5x blocks fat". So that means that if i'm trying to maintain/gain, I should be doing meals like this:
4 blocks carbs, 4 blocks Protien, 20 blocks Fat??? Is that really correct?

I have being mostly getting that fat from peanut butter, almonds, olives, and macadamian nuts. Any better/other sources? Does fish oil get counted as fat?


Thanks for the help,
Michael
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2009, 08:39 PM   #2
Jamie J. Skibicki
Member Jamie J. Skibicki is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Pittsburgh  PA
Posts: 8,841
Re: Zone Help - Hard Gainer/Fat intake

You are underweight and follwoing the zone? Why?

Eat paleo, eat a lot.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2009, 09:25 PM   #3
Eric Montgomery
Member Eric Montgomery is offline
 
Eric Montgomery's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: San Diego  CA
Posts: 7,413
Re: Zone Help - Hard Gainer/Fat intake

Zone with crappy quality foods does not equal cleaning up your diet...I'm not assuming that you're eating crappy, but just pointing out that Zone by itself doesn't necessarily mean you're eating cleaner.

If you want to gain weight, bump up to 18 blocks and 4x or 5x fat (meaning 18P/18C/72F or 90F blocks per day). But mainly, like Jamie said, eat Paleo and don't worry too much about quantity.

To simplify things, lately I've just been keeping track of protein blocks, then I'll eat 2-3 carb blocks (vegetables or low-GI fruits) along with every 4-5 protein block meal, then eat fat blocks til I'm not hungry...usually a few big spoonfuls of Sunbutter or handfuls of almonds. That way I make sure my protein intake is adequate, and end up with about an 80% Zone effect/Robb-Wolf-reduced-carb-Zone-trick, with a lot less effort.

It doesn't really matter how you split your blocks--I used to eat 5-6 times a day and found that inconvenient, so now I just do three 5 block meals and one 4 block meal. Saves me a lot of time and thinking.

Coconut milk, coconut oil, and 5lb buckets of Sunbutter make exceptionally nice fat choices. Aside from that eat almonds, sunflower seeds, macadamias, walnuts, pecans, olive oil, or whatever else works for you. Don't count fish oil as fat blocks.
__________________
Training Log (WFS)
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2009, 11:32 PM   #4
Michael Cordell
Member Michael Cordell is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Santa Barbara  CA
Posts: 6
Re: Zone Help - Hard Gainer/Fat intake

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie J. Skibicki View Post
You are underweight and follwoing the zone? Why?

Eat paleo, eat a lot.
I sorta just picked it up after reading the faq. Also, I got my dad on it because he does actually need to lose weight. After reading the book, I figured I could just scale up with fat. I will google around about the paelo diet.


Thanks for the tips Eric, where does one find Sunbutter?
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2009, 12:42 AM   #5
Amir Fazeli
Member Amir Fazeli is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Sydney  NSW
Posts: 17
Re: Zone Help - Hard Gainer/Fat intake

Hi,

Just a thought, you may want to stop really worrying about whether your doing paleo or zone or whatever and instead just make it 60%carbs - 30%protein and 10%fat.

What you need to do is get in calorie dense foods that are still good for you, get in starchy things more often, eat before you sleep even. and yes, fish oil does count as fat.

eat things that are less fibre dense which will provide less bulk in the diet, so you can stuff yourself more. Still eat healthy, just eat more.

Feel free to share thoughts.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2009, 06:26 AM   #6
Eric Montgomery
Member Eric Montgomery is offline
 
Eric Montgomery's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: San Diego  CA
Posts: 7,413
Re: Zone Help - Hard Gainer/Fat intake

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Cordell View Post
I sorta just picked it up after reading the faq. Also, I got my dad on it because he does actually need to lose weight. After reading the book, I figured I could just scale up with fat. I will google around about the paelo diet.


Thanks for the tips Eric, where does one find Sunbutter?
Sunbutter's website (WFS) You can order it by the 5lb pails there. Or Trader Joe's, Henry's, etc usually sell it in the 1lb jars.

I said you don't need to count fish oil as fat because you're a self-described hard gainer and because that's just being too nitpicky...if you were an inactive 98lb woman, then you might need to count them because calories from fish oil would start to add up to a pretty significant portion of your daily calories and might throw off your efforts to reach your goals. In your case you'll be alright not counting them.

I also wouldn't recommend cutting fat to 60%C/30%P/10%F if you're trying to gain weight. To eat a 60% carb diet at extremely high calorie intakes you basically have to eat a lot of processed stuff as opposed to the good stuff like low-GI fruits and vegetables. And it's a lot harder to eat 400 calories of broccoli than 400 calories of chicken or steak or Sunbutter or macadamia nuts, so getting a calorie surplus from protein and fats is easier.
__________________
Training Log (WFS)
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2009, 07:44 PM   #7
Amir Fazeli
Member Amir Fazeli is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Sydney  NSW
Posts: 17
Re: Zone Help - Hard Gainer/Fat intake

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Montgomery View Post
I also wouldn't recommend cutting fat to 60%C/30%P/10%F if you're trying to gain weight. To eat a 60% carb diet at extremely high calorie intakes you basically have to eat a lot of processed stuff as opposed to the good stuff like low-GI fruits and vegetables. And it's a lot harder to eat 400 calories of broccoli than 400 calories of chicken or steak or Sunbutter or macadamia nuts, so getting a calorie surplus from protein and fats is easier.
In my oppinion you can easily make 60%carbs on your diet without having to resort to crappy foods. The thing people misunderstand about low-GI foods is that its been blown out of proportion. At first the GI scale was developed for diabetics and it was measured based on a fasting state of the body to see how quickly the food releases glucose and insulin into the blood stream and how long its maintained for. Well the problem is in any healthy, balanced, well-planned diet the person would be eating every 3 hours which is as far from a fasting state as you can get. Secondly, when foods are combined their GIs change, especially if you combine carbs with some quality protein, on top of that since you are eating every 3 hours there is still some food left over in your stomach from the previous meal...slowing the digestion process down and further altering the GI.

The GI is important to consider in a diet, dont get me wrong. But its not the be all and end all of everything. The amount of fats in your diet should be coming as completely from EFAs as you can and that should be around 10-15%, you don't want to overconsume fat because fat gets stored straight away as fat, whereas in the case of carbs some of stored as muscle glycogen, some you would burn because of your high metabolism (hence your hard gainer genetics) and the rest if they were to get stored at least not all would because the body has to actually burn some of those carbs in the process of converting them into fat to be stored.

Have more starchy carbs, oats, brown rice, etc. very starchy.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2009, 07:54 PM   #8
Katherine Derbyshire
Member Katherine Derbyshire is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Seattle  WA
Posts: 7,596
Re: Zone Help - Hard Gainer/Fat intake

You're new here, aren't you Amir?

I hate to tell you this, but you're probably about to get flamed by the "grains are instruments of Satan" crowd.

Katherine
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2009, 08:08 PM   #9
Amir Fazeli
Member Amir Fazeli is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Sydney  NSW
Posts: 17
Re: Zone Help - Hard Gainer/Fat intake

no i knew i would cop that. It's ok, i just saw a man asking for help, everyone's telling him paleo this and zone that, its like a frikin fashion trend, was just hoping someone would see that something different might need to be tried here and maybe he would reach his goal.

Bring it on
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2009, 08:17 PM   #10
Sarah Clent
Member Sarah Clent is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Perth  Westren Australia
Posts: 137
Re: Zone Help - Hard Gainer/Fat intake

Everything in moderation hey!
Grains included!
Honestly, they arent 'mad made' so how can they be that bad? God put them on earth as an energy food source soooooo how can they be so bad for us in moderation?

__________________
"Only when we are no longer afraid, Do we begin to LIVE"
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hard Gainer Gabriel Halisky Starting 31 05-05-2009 07:37 AM
EAS products for a hard gainer??? John Swanson Nutrition 10 12-24-2007 02:36 AM
Another Hard Gainer... Timothy Walsh Nutrition 12 09-03-2007 07:52 PM
Zone caloric intake vs. typical diet (50%carbs, 30% fat, 20% protein) caloric intake Ben Jackson Nutrition 3 11-14-2004 06:54 AM
"Hard gainer"? -- question on CFJ Zone definitions John Frazer Nutrition 21 05-21-2004 10:38 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:01 AM.


CrossFit is a registered trademark of CrossFit Inc.