Gillian Mounsey Article

[S.S.]

Originally Posted by Michael Dries

Actually Robb Wolf had John Welbourne on his podcast (episode 65) talking mainly about the Iowa state case where the college football players went to the hospital having rhabdo from a conditioning workout. He basically said peeing brown or black the morning after a game is almost standard procedure.

That's interesting. That doesn't mean it was from rhabdo or adrenal fatigue though. I've urinated brown and bright red myself after running a few times. When your bladder is totally empty and you're moving your body very vigorously, the bladder rubs on itself and chafes, and the blood gets discharged through the urine. Not a big deal at all; it just means you need to hydrate.
My random guess is what this is what's happening to these football players. I'd be very skeptical if they are claiming it's rhabdo.

[Katherine Derbyshire]

Originally Posted by Shane Skowron

But when there's a central authority that essentially controls everything about certain activity, it's pretty reasonable to petition them to change stuff. Not really possible with the activities of "running" or "soccer."

I'll bet a soccer coach with a higher than average injury rate would find himself unemployed pretty quickly, however.

Katherine

[Katherine Derbyshire]

Originally Posted by Steve Loeding

Yeah - I've seen plenty curled up in the fetal position with concussions, being carted off and into an ambulance, broken legs, arms, busted knees, shoulders....

Should we ban football and make fun of it too ?

How many Crossfitters make $88K per year? (The NFL *practice squad* minimum.) How about $340K? (The rookie minimum.)

And actually yes, I think football has serious issues of its own due to the risk of permanent brain injury. I certainly don't think "safer than football" is an adequate standard for a fitness program aimed at the masses.

Edit to add additional fun fact: The average length of an NFL career is just three years.

Katherine

[Evan Jackson]

Originally Posted by Michael Kelley

You know, sometimes people get sick and injured by sheer chance. They up those chances every time they get off the couch and move around. People who exercise stand a pretty good chance of being injured at some point. People who exercise with intensity stand an even greater chance. Such is life.

I've already said this once: There's a difference between injuries that occur because of sheer chance and those that are utterly predictable. The things we're talking about are the latter.

Originally Posted by Michael Kelley

As for achilles tears, I know 7-8 people who have had surgery for repairs. One of them was a crossfitter. He did it because he allowed his form to fail late in a workout. The others tore their playing football, soccer, or in the military. I don't think it's that uncommon an injury among active people.

No, it's not common.

[Katherine Derbyshire]

Originally Posted by Evan Jackson

No, it's not common.

Got some statistics? I found one site (unsourced, therefore not linked) that estimated 230,000+ per year, only considering tears severe enough to prevent participation in sports.

Katherine

[Evan Jackson]

Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire

Got some statistics? I found one site (unsourced, therefore not linked) that estimated 230,000+ per year, only considering tears severe enough to prevent participation in sports.

Katherine

Negative.

As far as I know, it's most common in people who haven't been particularly active for a while (or ever) and then start participating in sports, in particular, people over thirty.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it doesn't happen enough that the aforementioned stats about the CrossFit Open are anywhere NEAR acceptable.

[Michael Dries]

Originally Posted by Shane Skowron

That's interesting. That doesn't mean it was from rhabdo or adrenal fatigue though. I've urinated brown and bright red myself after running a few times. When your bladder is totally empty and you're moving your body very vigorously, the bladder rubs on itself and chafes, and the blood gets discharged through the urine. Not a big deal at all; it just means you need to hydrate.
My random guess is what this is what's happening to these football players. I'd be very skeptical if they are claiming it's rhabdo.

What's funny is that Welbourne said at some point "I never heard of rhabdo until I came to crossfit. We all used to pee dark brown after nfl games, I thought I just needed to drink more water."



In other news, the folks who blew out their achilles, did these people blow them the first time out on the WOD? Or was this the second, third, forth time in a week they attempted that WOD?

[Steve Loeding]

First, Gillian did not use common sense in her training - her trainer's fault, her fault, I don't know. Doing 150 pull ups after not doing CrossFit workouts for a while - that, my friends, is stupid. Doing BW exercises x 50 (or 100 - doesn't matter) is stupid. Just plain dumb. If she cannot control herself and there is no one there to tell her to stop, scale, don't do it, then that's on her and the people she surrounds herself with. I wouldn't do that crap and I'm an idiot. But I KNOW BETTER !!! I wouldn't run 10 miles on a whim either.

Besides the point really - active people get injured. Fact of life. Should people stop running, biking, playing basketball, martial arts, etc in the pursuit of fitness just because there is a chance of being injured ??? Why dont' we all just become lazy fat couch potatoes because the potential for injury exists no matter what we do. Let's just give up.

People get injured for a number of reasons - it happens. It's not good, it's not a goal and it certainly doesn't help in the pursuit of fitness (which ever modality one chooses).

And for those who think they are experts in the CrossFit field, open your own gym and provide clients with a resource that will help them become fit with a lower possibility of injury. I find it irritating that all CrossFit gyms are lumped togethe without visiting all of them. Are there bad ones ? Yeah, no doubt. Are there good ones that scale and take measures to prevent injuries, overtraining, etc. Yep.

Another thing - you speak of periodizing workouts (which I wholly agree with) but many CrossFit gyms have people who do not think that way, that come 3x one week, 2 the next, 4 the next, 1 the next, all on different days. Tell me how the hell you program for someone who is not consistent with their workouts ? You could periodize all you want, they don't know the difference. As I said before, most clients at CrossFit gyms want to be fit - stronger, faster, recover better, learn new movements, move some weights - they don't have goals of being an olympic lifter, bodybuilder, Games qualifier. They do not want or need to specialize in anything - and they understand that this is an all-around fitness program. If they wanted to specialize, they would seek out a trainer specific to their goals. How many 30-50 year olds really want to just do Olympic lifts ? Not many.

If you disagree with the premise behind CrossFit, you are free to pursue your own avenues of fitness. There is not a one size fits all. But I don't see the purpose of some of the people here who only rip CrossFit and do nothing to contribute positively to the program. I hate long distance running but I don't go to their forums and rip them apart. It's time to decide if you are part of the community or not - if not, then don't rip those who are.

BTW - I'm not a CrossFit cool-aid drinker - I don't do/believe in Paleo or the zone, don't follow mainpage and I don't agree with HQ on many things. So I'm not a blind follower without my own opinions.

[Doug Lantz]

And now a few words from Gillian Mounsey talking about CrossFit and her experience with it.

This is the thread about the Gillian Mounsey article on SS correct ?

My article was not meant to bash CrossFit methodology. In my opinion the major problem lies in execution of movements and the interpretation of programming. CrossFit has brought a rudimentary knowledge of Olympic lifts, slow lifts, kettle bells and basic gymnastics to populations that previously had little or no exposure. There are more folks doing these movements than ever before. Many of my female and senior clients no longer fear barbells - now it is cool to them and this is a good thing. More people are squatting!

In its spread to the masses, quality has been lost. Imagine a game of telephone - more and more certified CrossFit instructors are out there and there is no way for a newbie entering an affiliate to determine how sound the coaching is. Most choose a CrossFit affiliate based on location and use the closest one. In my case, I went to the only one in NYC in 2008.

The reason my article is titled "A New Perspective" is because I had lost perspective. I do not blame CrossFit for hurting me. It was my interpretation of CrossFit combined with my personality that got me in trouble. Many people just go to the gym to exercise. Further, they do not want to hurt themselves, nor are capable of afflicting serious damage to themselves. CrossFit is great exercise for those that want to get their heart rates up, sweat, feel good, socialize, and get fit. Most don't REALLY care what they can squat (in my experience). It's too much hard work to find out.

When I found CrossFit, I was looking for a sport. I was looking to reconnect with the identity of an athlete - the one I had known my whole life. In addition, I was looking for more than exercise. I am extremely competitive by nature - I wanted to win and I wanted to dominate. In CrossFit that meant having the fastest time. Unfortunately having the fastest times meant sacrificing form and movement integrity.

CrossFit did not give me body image issues, it allowed me to continue to foster them in the disguise of "looking like an ideal CrossFitter". Part of the reason that I chose to seek Rip's guidance and become a lifter was to conquer those issues. To be strong, I cannot starve myself. The reason I was able to starve myself in CrossFit was because I already had a solid strength base and the prescribed loads were light enough (to me) that I could skate by even with an energy deficit.

In all honestly, I have chosen weightlifting because I am most afraid of it. It demands me to be 100% present, focused, and prepared and from that I will grow as an individual and as a lifter. Those that know me - know that previously I had never missed a lift. Those less informed think that I am really strong. The truth is that I never went heavy enough, never took a risk, and was afraid to fail. I now know that I must fail in order to get better.

[Steve Loeding]

"How many Crossfitters make $88K per year? (The NFL *practice squad* minimum.) How about $340K? (The rookie minimum.)"

How many peewee, junior high, high school, college (obviously excluding D1) make that much ? None. They still play, knowing the risk, and they still get injured. They break bones, tear ligaments, suffer concussions.

How many cyclists, runners, etc get paid that much ? None, unless they are pro. Yet people still bike, run, train in the martial arts for fitness - and get hurt.

Yes - there are rules to prevent injury - just like CrossFit, there are subs and scaling to prevent injury. If an individual is doing it on their own, they need to use common sense. If they train in a CrossFit gym their trainer needs to know how to scale.