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Old 08-07-2009, 12:24 PM   #1
David Reynolds
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RKC Kettlebell swings or Crossfits swings?

I am sure this has been asked before, but, been training with a RKC kettlebell guy trying to learn some new tech for swings and snatches. What i see is that the RKC swing especially is much lower center of gravity/like sumo deadlift position than the crossfit standard swing i have learned. As well in crossfit, the bell has to come over your head. As we see in RKC the swing only comes chest level. This guy told me it is not beneficial to swing over the head due to loss of core engagement once youre over your head. Anyway the only way ive known to do them is over the head, anybody got ideas, comments, suggestions?
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Old 08-07-2009, 01:04 PM   #2
Jason Peacock
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Re: RKC Kettlebell swings or Crossfits swings?

FWIW, I've heard the same thing - there's no big benefit in bringing the KB overhead (Crossfit or 'American' style), RKC style of eye-level is all you need to get the benefits of a KB swing.

My CF gym does RKC style, if I ever do KB swings in an official CF comp. there will be some last minute learning
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Old 08-07-2009, 01:14 PM   #3
Randy Barnett
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Re: RKC Kettlebell swings or Crossfits swings?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Peacock View Post
FWIW, I've heard the same thing - there's no big benefit in bringing the KB overhead (Crossfit or 'American' style), RKC style of eye-level is all you need to get the benefits of a KB swing.

My CF gym does RKC style, if I ever do KB swings in an official CF comp. there will be some last minute learning
I agree. RKC style for me is the best. I think you have more stablity and control of the bell. But that's just me.
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Old 08-07-2009, 01:27 PM   #4
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: RKC Kettlebell swings or Crossfits swings?

Getting overhead requires much more shoulder engagement. Even though most of the drive comes from the hips, you need the shoulders for control if you go overhead. The two exercises are not interchangeable.

(No, I'm not going to get into the argument about which is better. But they are definitely different.)

Katherine
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Old 08-07-2009, 01:43 PM   #5
adam adkins
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Re: RKC Kettlebell swings or Crossfits swings?

Crossfit's stance:

Quote:
"At CrossFit we swing the kettlebell overhead while the
kettlebell community swings to eye or shoulder height.
No matter how many times we’re admonished for our
excessive swing we proceed unabated? What gives? Are
we in need of additional, more “qualified”, kettlebell
instruction?

"While admitting a penchant for iconoclasm, we are
not contrary solely for the sake of being contrary.
Rational foundations for our programming, exercises,
and technique are fundamental to CrossFit’s charter.
We swim against the current only when we believe that
doing so delivers a stimulus truer to our product – elite
fitness.

"In the March 2004 issue of the CrossFit Journal we
stated that, “Criteria for (exercise) selection include,
range of joint motion, uniqueness of line of action, length
of line of action, strength of line of action, commonness
of motor pattern, demands on flexibility, irreducibility,
utility, foundational value, measurable impact on
adherents, and, frankly, potential for metabolically
induced comfort.”

Quote from article:

"On first being introduced to the kettlebell swing our
immediate response was, “Why not go overhead?”
Generally, we endeavor, somewhat reflexively, to
lengthen the line of travel of any movement. Why?
There are two reasons. The first is somewhat intuitive.
We don’t do half rep pull-ups, we don’t do half rep squats,
and we don’t do half rep push-ups. If there is a natural
range of motion to any movement we like to complete
it. To do otherwise seems unnatural. We would argue
that partial reps are neurologically incomplete. The
second reason deals with some fundamentals of physics
and exercise physiology.

"From physics we know that the higher we lift
something, and the more it weighs, the more “work”
we are performing. Work is in fact equal to the weight
lifted multiplied by the height we lift the object."


I should note that I wholeheartedly disagree with this stance and actually believe the logic is silly. Crossfit does a bunch of things well, this just isn't one of them. With that said, take a look at the info and draw your own conclusion.
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Old 08-07-2009, 01:49 PM   #6
Andrew H. Meador
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Re: RKC Kettlebell swings or Crossfits swings?

The argument for CF/American style is that you aren't shortening the possible range of motion, and that the recycle rate isn't substantially slower. Hence, more power output. (EDIT: Adam touched on this above). I don't know whether this is necessarily true, in my experience, but I can definitely say that heavy swings to chest level, focusing on keeping the back arched, is effective. I feel it more through my glutes and hamstrings, and less in my lower back like with American swings.

EDIT: good post Adam.
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Last edited by Andrew H. Meador : 08-07-2009 at 01:52 PM.
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Old 08-07-2009, 01:59 PM   #7
Steven Matheson
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Re: RKC Kettlebell swings or Crossfits swings?

If there is a natural range of motion to any movement we like to complete it. To do otherwise seems unnatural. We would argue that partial reps are neurologically incomplete.

Does the policy on ATG squats differ?

Last edited by Steven Matheson : 08-07-2009 at 02:07 PM.
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Old 08-07-2009, 02:00 PM   #8
Blair Robert Lowe
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Re: RKC Kettlebell swings or Crossfits swings?

Good point, Andrew. OH swings I feel more in my lower back though the sumo-ish stance crushes the inside of my legs ( since I never Sumo squat or DL- SDHP doesn't count really ).
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Old 08-07-2009, 02:09 PM   #9
Dimitri Dziabenko
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Re: RKC Kettlebell swings or Crossfits swings?

Well, firstly I am not convinced about the higher "work done." Maybe per rep, but in a given period of time, I can knock out more RKC style swings than Crossfit style ones. You can always add weight to the RKC swings, but I don't think many of us swing the beast (106lb) overhead. About the whole range of motion thing: really? I mean, a clean and jerk has a longer range of motion than the deadlift, so what? Different exercises.

Finally, I think we should take care not to misuse the whole work done argument. By that logic, a standing backflip is much easier than a burpee since the center of mass moves less. Work done is not the only thing that matters in the adaptation.
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Old 08-07-2009, 03:10 PM   #10
David Reynolds
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Re: RKC Kettlebell swings or Crossfits swings?

Thanks for all the good input guys, different opinions are good. I have to say either way in like a wod like helen, a 28kg will kick my *** anyway i do the swing, but with the american oh swing starts to kill my lower back, Does anyone know if Jeff Martones kettlebell certs are taught RKC or the Crossfit swing way
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