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Old 06-23-2014, 02:25 PM   #1
Hakan Yilmazkaya
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Combining 5/3/1 BBB and WODs

Hey guys, i've been cutting since first of march, now i'm in a better shape, have better condition and feel ready to get more serious with that sport. My goal first goal is constantly increasing my lifts while keeping my condition, also gaining some size. I've done wendler's 531 for a while just before i got in a cut, i've seen great gains in strength. Now i'm thinking about starting it again with boring but big template and i have a question for you;

You know it says you do a 5x10 main assistance lift after main 531 lift of the day. It also says you do another assistance move on upper body days. For example on bench press day you do 5x10 shoulder press and than go for 5x10 chin ups. Today it was first day, but i found it was too much work to do. More important it sucks to just go lift and turn back home without hearing your heartbeat, doing no metcons. I want to be a crossfitter, i want to go on doing short metcons 4 days a week and don't want to be a lift and go home bodybuilder but this is only possible if i just to the 531 + main assistance and remove the second assistance lift. Do you think it is okay to remove chin ups on chest day and instead do a crossfit wod including some chin ups for example ? Any help will be appreciated, thanks.

edit: To be more clear is it ok if i change this;

Bench press (5/3/1)
Shoulder press 5x10
Chin ups 5x10
optional assistance*

With this;

Bench press (5/3/1)
Shoulder press 5x10
Metcon (including chin or pullups)
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Old 06-23-2014, 04:47 PM   #2
Cam Peavy
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Re: Combining 5/3/1 BBB and WODs

I don't think BBB falls in your goals. I think you'd be much better off doing the 5/3/1 on main lifts, an accessory lift or two on each day, and then a short metcon that focuses on those body parts. I did this for a bit and had great results. So for example:

1) 5/3/1 Deadlift
2) Leg Curls: 3-5 sets of 6-10 reps
3) 5 minute AMRAP with Deads and Box Jumps

I changed it each week, but there's just an example.

BBB is just that, Boring but Big.
-----
If you do decide to go your route, I don't recommend taking out Chin Ups. 10 sets of pressing with no pulling to offset it will MESS UP your shoulders.
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Old 06-24-2014, 03:27 AM   #3
Matt Payne
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Re: Combining 5/3/1 BBB and WODs

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Originally Posted by Hakan Yilmazkaya View Post
Hey guys, i've been cutting since first of march, now i'm in a better shape, have better condition and feel ready to get more serious with that sport. My goal first goal is constantly increasing my lifts while keeping my condition, also gaining some size. I've done wendler's 531 for a while just before i got in a cut, i've seen great gains in strength. Now i'm thinking about starting it again with boring but big template and i have a question for you;

You know it says you do a 5x10 main assistance lift after main 531 lift of the day. It also says you do another assistance move on upper body days. For example on bench press day you do 5x10 shoulder press and than go for 5x10 chin ups. Today it was first day, but i found it was too much work to do. More important it sucks to just go lift and turn back home without hearing your heartbeat, doing no metcons. I want to be a crossfitter, i want to go on doing short metcons 4 days a week and don't want to be a lift and go home bodybuilder but this is only possible if i just to the 531 + main assistance and remove the second assistance lift. Do you think it is okay to remove chin ups on chest day and instead do a crossfit wod including some chin ups for example ? Any help will be appreciated, thanks.

edit: To be more clear is it ok if i change this;

Bench press (5/3/1)
Shoulder press 5x10
Chin ups 5x10
optional assistance*

With this;

Bench press (5/3/1)
Shoulder press 5x10
Metcon (including chin or pullups)
I actually think this is fine to do. The program is quite flexible. Try it and see how you feel. That's the fun of it. No harm there. You could include chins randomly thought the week as well depending on your recovery.
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Old 06-24-2014, 04:09 AM   #4
Ludovic Deguy
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Re: Combining 5/3/1 BBB and WODs

Check that :

http://theoutlawway.com/category/outlawpower/
WFS

A great mix of oly lifting, power lifting, conditioning & skills with an emphasis on strength for weak guys like me.
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Old 06-24-2014, 06:47 AM   #5
Hakan Yilmazkaya
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Re: Combining 5/3/1 BBB and WODs

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Originally Posted by Cam Peavy View Post
I don't think BBB falls in your goals. I think you'd be much better off doing the 5/3/1 on main lifts, an accessory lift or two on each day, and then a short metcon that focuses on those body parts. I did this for a bit and had great results. So for example:

1) 5/3/1 Deadlift
2) Leg Curls: 3-5 sets of 6-10 reps
3) 5 minute AMRAP with Deads and Box Jumps

I changed it each week, but there's just an example.

BBB is just that, Boring but Big.
-----
If you do decide to go your route, I don't recommend taking out Chin Ups. 10 sets of pressing with no pulling to offset it will MESS UP your shoulders.
Hang power cleans can be counted as pulling too ? I mean i love doing hang cleans and have some favourite wods with them, you think it can be a substitution for chins ? Maybe i can do chins on a seperate day when i have more energy for it.
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Old 06-24-2014, 09:11 AM   #6
Eric Montgomery
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Re: Combining 5/3/1 BBB and WODs

No, hang power cleans are not a substitute for chins--they're completely different movements.
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Old 06-24-2014, 09:40 AM   #7
Dare Vodusek
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Re: Combining 5/3/1 BBB and WODs

Maybe some lat pulldowns instead of chins?
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Old 06-24-2014, 12:29 PM   #8
Cam Peavy
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Re: Combining 5/3/1 BBB and WODs

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Originally Posted by Dare Vodusek View Post
Maybe some lat pulldowns instead of chins?
That would work fine. While it doesn't matter from an aesthetic point of view, you can and will mess your shoulders up if you don't offset all of the pushing you do with pulling. Things like deadlifts and cleans don't count because they don't active the shoulder joint the way that pull downs and rows do. You should try and aim for a 2:1 Pull to Push ratio whenever you can.
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Old 06-24-2014, 01:19 PM   #9
Hakan Yilmazkaya
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Re: Combining 5/3/1 BBB and WODs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cam Peavy View Post
That would work fine. While it doesn't matter from an aesthetic point of view, you can and will mess your shoulders up if you don't offset all of the pushing you do with pulling. Things like deadlifts and cleans don't count because they don't active the shoulder joint the way that pull downs and rows do. You should try and aim for a 2:1 Pull to Push ratio whenever you can.
Valuable information, thank you for that, i will definitely care. I have another question in my head. I told i was doing boring but big, and today it was deadlift day. I was planning to to 5x10 front squats after deadlifts and when i checked my local box's wod, it was like;

5 rounds

10 x front squat
10 x toes to bar
10 x burpees

Normally i would rest 45 secs between sets if i was doing only 5x10. But with wod, the time between front squat sets is longer than that, something like 90-120 seconds, this is the only difference i think. I have decided to do the wod with %50 of 1rm (same with 5x10) and i feel so happy and energetic but i just want to know, do you think i will get the same hypertrophy by doing that wod instead of just doing 5x10 front squats ? A better question would be, the rest times between sets matters so much in the matter of hypertrophy ?

Edit: Btw thank you all for your answers, you helped me a lot.
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Old 07-01-2014, 06:14 PM   #10
Tommy Sittinger
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Re: Combining 5/3/1 BBB and WODs

Wendler's 5/3/1, second edition - www.jimwendler.com - has a few pages dedicated to 5/3/1 w/ CrossFit. I have the kindle version for $9.99.

I just bought it, and the CF stuff is on pages 83-89. I've just taken a quick look over the material. The main theme is to do the 5/3/1 and assistance work, and do a brief and intense metcon that matches up with your main lift and assistance lifts. The randomness of the CF WODs are not a good fit for 5/3/1 says Wendler; you have to match the metcon to the lift, otherwise you run the risk of having the metcon work against the main lift. For example, a WOD that has 30" BJ/315# DL the day before the deadlift session.

Wendler says to do a circuit of four movements, - a full body movement (ex. tire flips, Oly, stone loads, KB snatch), followed by an assistance movement (ex. front squat, swing, GHR, pistol, PU, rope climb, dips), followed by a conditioning movement (ex. sprints, sled push, Air Dyne, burpees, battling ropes), followed by another assistance movement. On the deload week, for conditioning just do non-circuits like prowler sets, running/sprinting.

He goes into detail, but that's a summary of Wendler's method to combine CF with 5/3/1, based on a quick five minute look over the material.

I need to figure out how to mix OLY into the program. I typically do complexes such as the klokov, clean/hang clean x 2, FS x 2, jerk, things like that. I don't like benching, so I may remove that, and do OLY along with the press and (what would be the) bench session, and stick with complexes to stay well below my 1RM. I already do mostly OLY complexes to prevent injury; it's just not that important to max out on the quick lifts regularly. If I get injured, I can lose a lot of money due to FLSA, night diff, and lost OT opportunity (I'm a firefighter/paramedic).
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