please critique hi hang snatch

[Justin M. Furtado]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeOhC7nw48o

I just can't snatch. Full snatch, hang snatch, just don't feel right. Help.

[John C Corona]

1st, it looks like its uncomfortable for you in the full ohs position? I wonder if its tight shoulders (upper body muscles), or maybe your grip could be wider? IDK? What I mean is I think your head needs to be thru your shoulders more?

The side view says a lot. The setup isnt bad, but I exaggerate my shoulders more back, bigger chest. The dip, you come forward. Try to imagine your back against a wall, and when you dip down, your back stays on the wall. The weight is on the heels for this dip and the 1st part of the drive. Your pull under could be more "elbows HIGH AND OUTSIDE". The bar gets in front too much. It could also be faster too!!

Again, your catch just doesnt look comfortable. Others might help better, maybe its your stance being kinda wide, or the mobility in your shoulders, but get that head thru and get down there faster.

The HighHang is my favorite...do them a lot in your warmups with lighter weight, even if its not snatch day. I see you post on Outlaw as "jfurtado"?...right on.

[Brad Allen Jones]

They just put a video up in the journal about snatching with mobility issues by Mike Burgener. Pretty good video if you ask me, check it out.

[Adam Fisk]

A few things I would change up.

Right off the bat I noticed that you were muscling up the weight. Remember that bar is suppose to "float" up and you get under it and because you're doing a power snatch you get under it fast but only slightly. Obviously you would drop into a squat if it were a squat snatch.

I also think you can bend your knees a little bit more. The range of motion for a hang clean, hang snatch, push press/jerk and split jerks are different for everyone. You want to be able to bend your knees as much as you can while maintaining a vertical chest.

Lastly the most important part of overhead strength and speed through the middle is internal and external rotation of the shoulders. Before you intiate the knee bend set youself up at the hang with internally rotated shoulders and activated lats. Your arms should act as cables and should play no role in getting the weight up except for attaching the weight to your body. Internally rotating your shoulders will help keep the bar close to your body and will also build up torque when the bar starts to get over your head and then you get into an external rotation of the shoulders. The arms are locked out and your elbows pits are pointing as far back as your flexability allows them to (which is something to work on entirely on its own). The transition from internal to external rotation is what is going to lock out the bar overhead and keep you stable whether it is a muscle, power, or squat snatch.

Hope this helps. It is a very complex movement and each step requires its own practice. You will most likely be miserbale if you try to tackle each one of these points at the same time. Develop that external rotation flexability with overhead squats and use the drive from your hips to get that bar moving.

**Also** I watched the video one more time. I kinda touched up on this but you have early arm bend. When the arm bends the power ends. Remember to internally rotate. It may help with that.

[Justin M. Furtado]

thanks guys.

John- yes, incredibly uncomfortable- I can barely do overhead squats. And I still wonder if when I do them if they are correct cause they don't feel right- and hurt my shoulders especially. I find it very hard to get my head through with shoulders back. It's gotten better but still must be a mobility thing. Yeah, Jfurtado over at Outlaw. For all of you is the lock out with arms uncomfortable for you guys, I mean that part takes alot outta me. I also find it very hard to keep chest/back up and sit on the heels before the 1st pull and in the catch.

Brad- I watched that video, I've been watching a ton of vids on snatching. Jon North hit drills this morning seemed good too. I've never done that hip hit before...I'm going to try it.

Adam- definately muscling the weight up cause these new movements are so awkward to me. External- showing the armpits correct. Hard...for me to do and get shoulders back at the same time. This takes so much effort. But I am understanding what your saying with internal and activating lats. Damn the stuff is technical. practice practice.

So here's my ? I'm following The Outlaw Way right now to get strength numbers up in all lifts. Since I don't have proper form with lifts like the snatch and ohs would you suggest to stay at a low weight until I perfect then once it actually "feels comfortable" start increasing the weight? And really just work on getting my strength numbers up with squats, deadlifts, CJs?

Thanks again guys much appreciated. I get so frustrated when I can't do something.

[Adam Fisk]

Originally Posted by Justin M. Furtado

For all of you is the lock out with arms uncomfortable for you guys, I mean that part takes alot outta me. I also find it very hard to keep chest/back up and sit on the heels before the 1st pull and in the catch.

Yes. It is extremely uncomfortable when you don't have the flexability. It takes a lot of practice and getting used to but I can assure that it is going to make a world of difference for your overhead strength. As for your chest, I mentioned earlier you do not want to bend your knees to the point of losing the vertical chest.

Originally Posted by Justin M. Furtado

I've been watching a ton of vids on snatching. Jon North hit drills this morning seemed good too. I've never done that hip hit before...I'm going to try it.

I would be careful with this. Although John North is an amazing snatcher and displays incredible power his technique and form is not accepted by some people i.e. coach Burgener. When John snatches he literally hits the bar with his hip before he shrugs. In doing so it is going to cause the bar to come away from your body, losing speed in the middle, and making it extremely easy to over extend at the top when you try to catch the bar.

I personally started snatching with his method and although you can put a lot of power behind the bar you may not be able to compensate for the over extension. I have recently switched to the Burgener method where the bar brushes up against right below your hips, the bar stays close, and you can lock out your arms immediately with the bar directly over your scapula.

Originally Posted by Justin M. Furtado

Adam- definately muscling the weight up cause these new movements are so awkward to me. External- showing the armpits correct. Hard...for me to do and get shoulders back at the same time. This takes so much effort. But I am understanding what your saying with internal and activating lats. Damn the stuff is technical. practice practice.

Actually a common misconception is showing the armpits. It is entirely possible to not be externally rotated and still show your armpits. The elbow pits back is a much more visual and accurate method for teaching external rotation while overhead. Your shoulders should be back when you are internally rotated and when you make that transfer to external rotation they should be pressing up. The key to overhead movements with a wide snatch grip is to always, always be pressing.

Originally Posted by Justin M. Furtado

So here's my ? I'm following The Outlaw Way right now to get strength numbers up in all lifts. Since I don't have proper form with lifts like the snatch and ohs would you suggest to stay at a low weight until I perfect then once it actually "feels comfortable" start increasing the weight? And really just work on getting my strength numbers up with squats, deadlifts, CJs?

Thanks again guys much appreciated. I get so frustrated when I can't do something.

Absolutely. When training for technique and speed you never want to exceed 70% of your 1RM. So if your 1RM for your squat snatch is 135, you should not be practice form or do a work out for that matter above 95lbs.

[Lincoln Brigham]

Originally Posted by Justin M. Furtado

thanks guys.

John- yes, incredibly uncomfortable- I can barely do overhead squats.

It shows. Doing hang snatches is a little like putting the cart before the horse, if you have trouble with a basic overhead squat.

In this video you're pulling the bar literally up to your eyeballs. The point of hang snatches is practicing speed under the bar, not practicing how high you can pull the bar. You don't need more pull, you need more speed under the bar. In the hang snatch the idea is to pull the bar to about armpit or sternum level and get under it like greased lightning. You're always going to have trouble getting into the overhead squat position quickly if you aren't comfortable in the overhead squat position.

You can continue to do this drill if you like but you're not going to get much out of it until you get better at the overhead squat.

[Glenn Plomchok]

This is great stuff. I struggle mightily with OHS. I did a full depth "catch" on a snatch with 65 pounds and was elated (this was a couple weeks ago). I can power snatch 145lb but I want to get to a point where I can catch at full depth. It is not coming easy...mobility has gotten better but it has been a slow road.

We did snatch drops a week or so ago in our Oly class and I wanted to leave. FRUSTRATED. Will certainly keep working at it but to me, I feel if I can get the drops to feel comfortable, I'll get the right cadence to dive under the weight vs being scared to death. Anyway, keep after it...and the feedback here was very helpful

Such a complex move. Watching someone do it who is good at it is awesome to watch. And I agree, North makes it look way too easy...I really like Glenn Pendlay's progressions for the Snatch. You can Youtube them...we are following Buergner at our box as our Oly coach was coached by him when she was in her teens. I like this progression as well...

[Justin M. Furtado]

Thanks alot guys great info. Damn. It really sounds like I

1. Need to get my mobility down first.

2. Need coaching. Working out on my own with these new movements with the time I have to do it just isn't going to happen.

I'm thinking maybe I should focus the time I have to workout on training with a coach? Any ideas?

Also, I think I just realized I don't have the skills yet it takes to be following a program like Outlaw. Maybe just stick with main site wods and work on oly skills on the side. My workout today was dissapointing again to say the least. Thanks again for all the input, super helpful.

[Marcus Allen]

Justin- IMHO many of the major issues in that lift could be alleviated by addressing the flexibility problem.
One drill that has worked wonders in our gym is this...

Get the biggest band you have and anchor it at the bottom of a verticle support.

Step in the loop and rest it just above your butt. Back up until the band is nice and tight. You should be able to sit in a full squat with tension on the band so you don't have to fight for a good bottom position.

Then do 3x20 Sotts press with a dowel. Try this as a warm up or cash out for a few weeks, then retest your OHS.

Otherwise just OHS with little to no weight, every day. You can stop and hold at the depth that causes you to break form. Especially dropping your chest, bending your arms or rolling onto the inside of your foot. Try to go deeper every day.