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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 08-15-2008, 06:08 PM   #31
Shane Rapp
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Re: Friend says that Football players are greater athletes than decathletes...

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Originally Posted by Greg Major View Post
The Superstars list means nothing because you don't know who the other athletes were that they were competing against. In this argument you're mostly comparing apples to oranges.

No, a football player wouldn't fare well in a 1500 meter race, but then again how would a decathalete fare lining up at running back? or even at a "non-skill" position?

The best athletes at their sports are just that. If an athlete doesn't specialize in a particular area or sport there's no way they'll be the best at any.
The thought of who they competed against crossed my mind but I didn't see any info on it. I'll try to find out who else competed when I have more time.
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Old 08-15-2008, 06:51 PM   #32
Thomas Bailly
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Re: Friend says that Football players are greater athletes than decathletes...

I read the article in 2001 or 2002...see, alpine skier strongest.
Thanks for the list.
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Old 08-15-2008, 09:56 PM   #33
Ivan Wolfe
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Re: Friend says that Football players are greater athletes than decathletes...

Well, this thread has gone on longer than I expected. Here's an update.

At this point, we've agreed that there needs to be a common way to gauge fitness - and we're trying to come up with a way to guess how each type of athlete would do on some sort of general skill test. But we're stuck there. We've decided to think about that for a few days. Any suggestions?

Also, another friend joined the conversation, and had this bizarre comment that I really don't know what to do with: (this friend is arguing that swimmer guy Phelps is the greatest athlete ever, period)

Quote:
The reason that people call Phelps the greatest athlete of all time is not because he is more flexible or whatever, (who really cares about that, come on) it’s because of his dominance in every category of his sport. That’s what makes someone “the greatest.”
I responded
Quote:
To me “greatest athlete” does not equal “most dominant in particular sport.” It means “most athletic, period.”
He (this other friend) responded:

Quote:
Um, no. “Most athletic” equals “most athletic.” “Greatest” anything has to involve some measure of success in their field of endeavor.
Very interesting where this is all going.
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Old 08-15-2008, 10:31 PM   #34
Gavin Harrison
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Re: Friend says that Football players are greater athletes than decathletes...

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Originally Posted by Jamie J. Skibicki View Post
Thorpe was genetic freak with bigger balls and work ethic than anyone save Alexander Karelin. Thats sort of like saying "Mike Phelps challenges everything I know and believe about diet".
Mike Phelps challenges everything I know and believe about genetics... "genetically different baby!"...
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Old 08-16-2008, 01:00 AM   #35
Shane Rapp
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Re: Friend says that Football players are greater athletes than decathletes...

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Originally Posted by Ivan Wolfe View Post
Well, this thread has gone on longer than I expected. Here's an update.

At this point, we've agreed that there needs to be a common way to gauge fitness - and we're trying to come up with a way to guess how each type of athlete would do on some sort of general skill test. But we're stuck there. We've decided to think about that for a few days. Any suggestions?

Also, another friend joined the conversation, and had this bizarre comment that I really don't know what to do with: (this friend is arguing that swimmer guy Phelps is the greatest athlete ever, period)



I responded

He (this other friend) responded:



Very interesting where this is all going.
See, I'm sure some will disagree with this but there is no way Phelps is the greatest athlete ever. He's the greatest swimmer ever but there's a difference. Being the greatest in one sport doesn't automatically make one the most athletic in said sport or in general. It makes one the best person at (insert sport here). It's the same with Jerry Rice. He might've been the best receiver ever, but there were definitely more athletic receivers. They were better athletes, but not as good as receivers. As far as being the greatest athlete, that's hard to define because of all the different attributes that contribute to athleticism and our inability to test athletes in each of these attributes in the same way. But considering all of those attributes, and the fact that swimming tests only a few of them, being the best swimmer in the world doesn't require being the best athlete in the world.
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Old 08-16-2008, 05:59 AM   #36
George Mounce
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Re: Friend says that Football players are greater athletes than decathletes...

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Originally Posted by Shane Rapp View Post
See, I'm sure some will disagree with this but there is no way Phelps is the greatest athlete ever. He's the greatest swimmer ever but there's a difference. Being the greatest in one sport doesn't automatically make one the most athletic in said sport or in general. It makes one the best person at (insert sport here). It's the same with Jerry Rice. He might've been the best receiver ever, but there were definitely more athletic receivers. They were better athletes, but not as good as receivers. As far as being the greatest athlete, that's hard to define because of all the different attributes that contribute to athleticism and our inability to test athletes in each of these attributes in the same way. But considering all of those attributes, and the fact that swimming tests only a few of them, being the best swimmer in the world doesn't require being the best athlete in the world.
So if you combined say ***, Warner, Phelps, Rezazadeh, Wei you might get:

Gawapherezwe! The ultimate Olympic athlete!
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Old 08-18-2008, 08:06 AM   #37
Phillip Garrison
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Re: Friend says that Football players are greater athletes than decathletes...

Phelps is the greatest Olympian of all time, or will be by the time he's done. Lets not forget he;s only 22, and will be 26 at London in 2012. He could win 5 or 6 more gold medals at those games. If he won 6 there, his total would be 19 gold medals. It would be hard to argue against that amount of hardware.
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Old 08-22-2008, 06:44 PM   #38
John Casey
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Re: Friend says that Football players are greater athletes than decathletes...

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Originally Posted by Ivan Wolfe View Post
We've been having a go on this. I claim the best athletes are decathletes and gymnasts, he insists it's football and basketball players.

Here are the points he most recently gave me:



At this point, I'm a little nonplussed on where to go. Part of me tells me that my friend is just throwing up smokescreens and just plain doesn't like decathletes and gymnasts, but I'm wondering what solid evidence I could give to refute his points.
i'm astounded that so many of you think this friend is good at arguing. he has few logical connections between his support and his conclusion (as i understand them):

conclusion: football and basketball players, especially as compared to gymnasts and decathletes, are the best athletes in the world.

flawed support (i won't point out all of it):

--the whole marathon bit?! that has NOTHING to do with football players, basketball players, decathletes, or gymnasts. what's it doing in this argument?
--in his throwing example, he references Ultimate Frisbee--a game that has nothing to do with either football or basketball.
--in 9 years of playing football, and 6 years of basketball, i've never heard of the term "sweeper" (unless he means a running back running a sweep play); so, again, he's referencing a sport that has nothing to do with football or basketball.
--his bit on agility: he'd have an argument here if he actually referenced football and basketball (kobe, lebron, iverson, tomlinson, champ bailey, etc...); instead, he goes on some soccer tangent

your friend never addresses basketball or gymnastics. he rarely mentions football or decathletes.

i agree with many of the others that this is a difficult TOPIC to debate. if all you're concerned about is winning an argument with your friend, however, have no fear. his argument is so unbelievably weak that he's beaten himself for you. until he makes a decent effort at actually supporting his claims , you've got this one in the bag. ask for SPECIFIC examples as support, too. don't just take "quarterbacks are capable of doing such and such;" or, "there was a running back one time that..." make him say, "Tom Brady in such and such game made this unbelievable play. this is why a decathlete could never make that play." or, "in a game against the chiefs, LT did such and such 4 times. a gymnast or decathlete couldn't do this because (insert sound reasoning here)."

sorry for the brief lesson on rhetoric. in sum: if you're looking to debate the topic, i agree it's a classic barstool argument. if you're looking to simply whoop your friend in a debate--he's done most of the work for you already.
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Old 08-22-2008, 07:15 PM   #39
Jason Halm
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Re: Friend says that Football players are greater athletes than decathletes...

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Originally Posted by Lincoln Brigham View Post
Two words: "skill positions". Meaning some positions are "non-skill".
Being a former o-linemen, I resent that. Why do I resent it? Because you're wrong.
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Old 08-23-2008, 10:25 AM   #40
Dave Coughlin
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Re: Friend says that Football players are greater athletes than decathletes...

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Originally Posted by Jason Halm View Post
Being a former o-linemen, I resent that. Why do I resent it? Because you're wrong.
+1

I would also reckon that John Welbourne would disagree with that statement, as well.
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