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Old 10-03-2010, 05:00 PM   #31
Shane Skowron
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Re: What do you think of my GHD Metcon?

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Originally Posted by Rene Forestier View Post
And yet he links 2 CF resources and proclaims C2B the only valid pull-ups...that doesn't make sense.

To claim GHDs are inappropriate for metcons is also wrong. I'm glad Shane feels comfortable taking on Coach G's wisdom, but this is the same argument claiming TGUs are inappropriate for metcons...they can be used very effectively if used correctly with appropriate work up...as Coach G has stated.
Can you please outline the benefits of doing GHD situps as fast as possible that can't be obtained by doing them in controlled sets?
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Old 10-03-2010, 05:05 PM   #32
Rene Forestier
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Re: What do you think of my GHD Metcon?

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Originally Posted by Shane Skowron View Post
Can you please outline the benefits of doing GHD situps as fast as possible that can't be obtained by doing them in controlled sets?
That argument can ever be won. It would be like arguing over whether or not doing 30 snatches "as fast as possible" is better than doing them "in controlled sets". One either thinks they are a good thing or not...but this is CF, so yah, its better to do the work faster than it is to do it slower. We could get into i"increased work capacity", but I already know how that will go.
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Old 10-03-2010, 05:22 PM   #33
Robert D Taylor Jr
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Re: What do you think of my GHD Metcon?

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Can you please outline the benefits of doing GHD situps as fast as possible that can't be obtained by doing them in controlled sets?

Absolutely, You won't get the metabolic conditioning.
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Old 10-03-2010, 11:08 PM   #34
John Stone
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Re: What do you think of my GHD Metcon?

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Originally Posted by Rene Forestier View Post
And yet he links 2 CF resources and proclaims C2B the only valid pull-ups...that doesn't make sense.

How doesn't it make sense?

Chest to bar is the full range of motion. There is no debate -- if your chest doesn't hit the bar, you obviously have not worked through the full possible range of motion.

So a person arguing against C2B is arguing for not doing full ROM on an exercise.

Now, as Katherine pointed out, I am not a big fan of kipping being used as often as it is -- but at least kipping allows for full ROM. Barely squeaking the tip of one's chin over the bar is loafing, plain and simple -- doing so is no different than a myriad of other cheats people can use to get a better time (don't lock out the thruster, don't break parallel on the squat, don't break parallel on the dip, don't bring the KB all the way overhead on the swing, et cetera). How about I start bouncing the weights when I dead lift, and post 30+ reps of 300+ pounds?

It's all the same, in my opinion. You either do the full range of motion, or you don't. There really isn't any gray here. If you don't see that very clearly, we'll have to agree to disagree.
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Old 10-03-2010, 11:43 PM   #35
James White
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Re: What do you think of my GHD Metcon?

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It's all the same, in my opinion. You either do the full range of motion, or you don't. There really isn't any gray here. If you don't see that very clearly, we'll have to agree to disagree.
Would you do me this favor, please?

Re-read the CFJ article that YOU posted and quoted and tell me what definition the author used for the "pull-up."

Also, if the C2B pull-up is the "CrossFit standard" as you claim...why does mainsite SPECIFY when C2B are to be used, if they are "the standard"?

If you can answer those two questions, I'll rest my case.
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Old 10-03-2010, 11:47 PM   #36
John Stone
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Re: What do you think of my GHD Metcon?

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Also, if the C2B pull-up is the "CrossFit standard" as you claim
Like to make Straw-Man arguments much? Please show me where I say "C2B is the CrossFit standard." Then we can continue.
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Old 10-04-2010, 04:57 AM   #37
Tamara Cohen
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Re: What do you think of my GHD Metcon?

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It's all the same, in my opinion. You either do the full range of motion, or you don't. There really isn't any gray here. If you don't see that very clearly, we'll have to agree to disagree.
Okay. We disagree. You're wrong.
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Old 10-04-2010, 08:40 AM   #38
Shane Skowron
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Re: What do you think of my GHD Metcon?

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Absolutely, You won't get the metabolic conditioning.
I assume by this you mean you won't develop the aerobic capacity (Technically metabolic refers to phosphagen, glycolytic, and aerobic but I don't see how one could possibly measure or even care about phosphagen/glycolytic aspects of a situp).

I would say there is very little value in aerobic conditioning of a GHD situp because it is never the limiting factor in a GHD metcon. It's the muscular endurance component that's the limiting factor.

Now for kettlebell swings, snatches, burpees, etc, I can understand that argument. Sometimes the limiting factor for those is that you lose your breath - an aerobic conditioning issue. But how many people can't do another GHD situp because they're out of breath?


In general, you don't always need to do metcons in order to improve your metcon ability. By way of example I recently improved my score on the Secret Service Snatch Test by over 15% without doing any significant metcon or any KB work whatsoever for 4 months. The reason was that I improved explosiveness and muscular endurance, which is the limiting factor.


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Originally Posted by Rene Forestier View Post
That argument can ever be won. It would be like arguing over whether or not doing 30 snatches "as fast as possible" is better than doing them "in controlled sets". One either thinks they are a good thing or not...but this is CF, so yah, its better to do the work faster than it is to do it slower. We could get into i"increased work capacity", but I already know how that will go.
I see the value in doing 30 snatches for time more than the value of GHD situps for time. The former is dependent both on strength, muscular endurance, and aerobic capacity. It's also not as likely to cause serious injury. The latter is notorious for causing serious injury, and it requires mainly muscular endurance and not much else, which can be developed in slow controlled sets.
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Old 10-04-2010, 08:57 AM   #39
Rene Forestier
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Re: What do you think of my GHD Metcon?

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Originally Posted by Shane Skowron View Post
I see the value in doing 30 snatches for time more than the value of GHD situps for time. The former is dependent both on strength, muscular endurance, and aerobic capacity. It's also not as likely to cause serious injury. The latter is notorious for causing serious injury, and it requires mainly muscular endurance and not much else, which can be developed in slow controlled sets.
Doing GHD sit-ups fast also requires/improves aerobic capacity...have you done them?

"Notorious for causing serious injury?!"...where did you get that from?

edit: I guess it should be stated again...high-rep GHDs must be properly worked up to.

Last edited by Rene Forestier : 10-04-2010 at 09:02 AM.
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Old 10-04-2010, 09:10 AM   #40
Shane Skowron
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Re: What do you think of my GHD Metcon?

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Originally Posted by Rene Forestier View Post
Doing GHD sit-ups fast also requires/improves aerobic capacity...have you done them?

"Notorious for causing serious injury?!"...where did you get that from?

edit: I guess it should be stated again...high-rep GHDs must be properly worked up to.
I've been perusing these boards and other CF forums/articles for over 3 years now and there are 2 exercises that stand out for causing rhabdomyolysis and compartment syndrome: GHD situps and jumping pullups. I believe that most people would agree with me on this.

So yes, I would say they are notorious for causing serious injury, perhaps more than most any of the other exercises.



I've done quite a few metcons before. I've always found situps to be a break, aerobically. I am really curious why the benefit of aerobic conditioning for a GHD situp outweighs its risk...

Last edited by Shane Skowron : 10-04-2010 at 09:12 AM.
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