GHD Situps

[Randy Tarasevich]

Originally Posted by Randy Tarasevich

Food for thought:
http://www.****************.com/arti...s_rippetoe.pdf (maybe not 100% WFS, but close)

Read it with an open mind.

I don't know why it this site is blocking it, but the article is at the Starting Strength website under "resources"....

[Rene Forestier]

Originally Posted by Randy Tarasevich

Stop doing them like most of us here have. They're overhyped and unless you plan on competing in CF events there's more productive ways to work those muscles. Also, Rip wrote an interesting article question the need for extensive "core" work, since the primary role of the "core" is stability and not ROM movement.

If you just cannot bring your self to eliminate them because CF says you shoudl be doing them, then maybe try adjusting the pad closer to the seat. This means that your *** will be hanging off the back of the seat with the apex of the seat pad resting on your hamstrings.

I noticed your own affiliate programmed them last week. Must be b/c CF "says you should". lol.

GHD sit-ups are a good movement used prudently. Rip is essentially correct, but a "secondary" role of core strength IS movement vs. stability...and anyway, training abs kelps with stability...Westside trains abs extensively...as do gymnasts, fighters, etc.

[Randy Tarasevich]

Originally Posted by Rene Forestier

I noticed your own affiliate programmed them last week. Must be b/c CF "says you should". lol.

GHD sit-ups are a good movement used prudently. Rip is essentially correct, but a "secondary" role of core strength IS movement vs. stability...and anyway, training abs kelps with stability...Westside trains abs extensively...as do gymnasts, fighters, etc.

Good observation. I do it for good measure because we have some people that want to compete and actually like them, but I don't encourage them anymore and that particular day many people chose to do Abmat sit-ups.

Where I deviate in thought from Rip is that I can see some benefit to training them through a ROM, because as you said and I observed, some sports require that you use abs through a ROM, such as gymnastics. In my case I had a competitive trampolinist and when discussing her routines it became clear that she used her abs through a ROM in many of her moves.

I just saying that overall, I had a paradigm shift regarding GHD sit-ups through experience training people and reading through literature like Rip's.

[Daniel Schmieding]

The idea that GHD sit-ups are useless or less-safe than weightlifting is silly.

You will not find exposure to such great range of motion and flexibility unless you practice slightly more advanced gymnastics movements than we run into on the mainsite WODs.

GHD Sit-ups are a fantastic exercise. Without fail, those under my care who have felt back pain were set up incorrectly, or had structural issues that would express under other loads as well.

If you want to eliminate them from your programming, do so because you have a limited number of GHDs for your clients, not because you think there's little-to-no benefit to them, or that "ab" work is useless.

My arms can become quite strong by simply deadlifting, as well. Does that mean I should eliminate arm training?

[Adam Carlson]

+1 to Daniel. Any of the major lifts, oly lifts, and most functional movements will strengthen the abs directly or indirectly. But I still want to strengthen them purposefully and directly anyway.

Also, Randy already mentioned this, but many sports require some form of ROM in the abs, either because the movement requires it or the athlete has poor flexibility. I coach wrestling and soccer, and I know that both have full ROM requirements. When you load the spine in weightlifting, you don't want the core to move (KStarr's hand positioning thing), but sports don't always feature a 'loaded' spine in the same way. A throw-in in soccer and many wrestling moves violate the midline rule regularly.

EDIT: also, did you see the Louie video where he demonstrated what he could do with his abs?

[Glenn Pendlay]

No one I coach does the GHD situp. Prolly never will do them, almost certainly will never be a huge part of the program.

But I do not subscribe to the theory that any exercise is really "bad"... Appropriate or Inappropriate for a certain situation maybe, but prolly not "bad".

I just tend to think that the GHD situp is not all that appropriate as a major part of the program of most folks.

[David Meverden]

Originally Posted by Adam Carlson

+1 to Daniel. Any of the major lifts, oly lifts, and most functional movements will strengthen the abs directly or indirectly. But I still want to strengthen them purposefully and directly anyway.
. . .

EDIT: also, did you see the Louie video where he demonstrated what he could do with his abs?

Louie also said that he does 90% of his ab work standing: exercises that will not have a very large range of motion. So he, too, doesn't seem to feel that large range of motion ab exercises are necessary or preferable.

[Anthony Ricci]

Most patients/clients can not perform this movement properly or safely due to inflexibility in rect fem ( bend knees), instability in lumbars, or immobility of hips so pain in lumbar region . Should we bag it and say it is bad or help them train to be able to do these for greater functionality?

[Rene Forestier]

Originally Posted by Glenn Pendlay

No one I coach does the GHD situp. Prolly never will do them, almost certainly will never be a huge part of the program.

But I do not subscribe to the theory that any exercise is really "bad"... Appropriate or Inappropriate for a certain situation maybe, but prolly not "bad".

I just tend to think that the GHD situp is not all that appropriate as a major part of the program of most folks.

I sure agree that no exercise is "bad"...in general, anyway. I just can't think of anyone barring medical contraindication/inability to do the movement correctly, for whom it is inappropriate.

I also don't consider GHD sit-ups a "major" part of the program...its just part of the variation.

Originally Posted by David Meverden

Louie also said that he does 90% of his ab work standing: exercises that will not have a very large range of motion. So he, too, doesn't seem to feel that large range of motion ab exercises are necessary or preferable.

I'd be surprised if Louis doesn't like them. Are there "better" ab exercises? Maybe, but just like the conjugate method, its about variation. One isn't wasting their time doing them.

Originally Posted by Anthony Ricci

Most patients/clients can not perform this movement properly or safely due to inflexibility in rect fem ( bend knees), instability in lumbars, or immobility of hips so pain in lumbar region . Should we bag it and say it is bad or help them train to be able to do these for greater functionality?

That's probably what the opponents of GHD sit-ups would argue...that they do not improve functionality. I would say that they do, and that even the process of working the trainee up to full ROM GHD sit-ups would be a beneficial journey.

[Aushion Chatman]

Originally Posted by David Meverden

Louie also said that he does 90% of his ab work standing: exercises that will not have a very large range of motion. So he, too, doesn't seem to feel that large range of motion ab exercises are necessary or preferable.

You just need to caveat that with the all important..."for his sport".

Pendlay hit the nail on the head, because a power lifter doesn't subscribe to training a certain way doesn't mean it's bad for a Crossfitter...you need to understand your own goals and use knowledgeable recommendation and your own trial and error experiences to find the best path to reaching them.

I'm pretty sure power lifters aren't doing many ring exercises or bucket circles or 2k rows either.