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Old 09-13-2010, 01:52 PM   #21
Simon Edmundson
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Re: The Bad Side of Fish Oil

Or in my case the 1000,000 question lol. I believe Brian has a PDF on his website that helps with the calculation of supplementation. Now I'm not saying this will be accurate in calculating the amount (if any is needed at all) as I do no know the theory behind how it was developed. If Brian has found that it works it might be the place to start. Stunning long term practiced doctors by making improvements in smokers aswel as none smokers shows there is something in this aslong as it was done in a controlled way- if no other dietary changes were made except that practice by Brian. If anybody has seen studies carried out on the same theories then please share but I have a feeling this is ground breaking.
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Old 09-13-2010, 05:28 PM   #22
Brian O'Laughlin
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Re: The Bad Side of Fish Oil

One possibly interesting finding for CFers would be a purported increase in arterial flexibility as a result of supplementation with 2900mg of PEOs, cited near the end of this:

http://www.brianpeskin.com/BP.com/re...ies-Report.pdf (WFS, but if your response to the writing style is like mine, you won't be WFS after a few pages)

All the bold and italics in his writing persuade me that he's a raving lunatic.

The supplemental oil blend he advocates uses coconut oil, among others, which should be happy news to many of the folks here. (eg, wfs: http://www.truerenewal.com/Parent-Es...-p/yes-peo.htm ) On that topic, since there are only TWO PEOs (emphasis his), why are there 4-6 oils in the blend?
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Old 09-13-2010, 05:35 PM   #23
Larry Hotchkiss
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Re: The Bad Side of Fish Oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian O'Laughlin View Post
The supplemental oil blend he advocates uses coconut oil, among others, which should be happy news to many of the folks here. (eg, wfs: http://www.truerenewal.com/Parent-Es...-p/yes-peo.htm ) On that topic, since there are only TWO PEOs (emphasis his), why are there 4-6 oils in the blend?
Im not a huge fan of his writing style either. He is every bit as guilty of pushing his point as any scientist so I try and take it with a grain of salt but im not totally willing to write off what he has to say yet, id like to research it more on my own.

As to the PEO's available he eludes to the fact there are more out there than just his and claims if you call or e-mail him he will tell you exactly what to look or ask for in your health food store so you can "mix" your own.

There is no doubt he has a vested interest, but today, who doesnt? Look at all the zone labs products etc.
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Old 09-13-2010, 06:01 PM   #24
Wayne Riddle
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Re: The Bad Side of Fish Oil

Reading through some of his paper I find his research to say the least. In trying to track down some of the research he cites, I can't find the paper he references but I can find papers on the very same site that are studies showing the opposite of the point he was trying to make.

Brian Peskin and Essential Fatty Acids

Comments by Dr. Stephen Guyenet (about half way down on the page)

Both WFS
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Old 09-13-2010, 06:03 PM   #25
Wayne Riddle
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Re: The Bad Side of Fish Oil

To make it easier, here is the text of Dr. Guyenet's comment:


Quote:
'm familiar with Peskin. I just read his paper in Medical Hypotheses. It's time for me to put this thing to rest. He states that the fact that tumors have low oxygen supports his claim that low oxygen is behind cancer. Tumors have low oxygen because blood vessel growth doesn't keep up with tumor growth. That happens after the tumor has already developed, not beforehand.

His basic hypothesis is that polyunsaturated fats in the membrane determine the cell's permeability to oxygen. He implies that PUFA transport oxygen across the cell membrane. The problem is that oxygen doesn't require PUFA or any other fatty acid to get across the membrane. Molecular oxygen is a non-charged small molecule that diffuses across the membrane freely. His claim that PUFAs influence its transport across the membrane has no support I'm aware of. I followed his reference for that statement, which was this study:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3245678

And it didn't support his claims. As far as I can tell, the study has nothing to do with oxygen transport across the cell membrane. It's about fatty acid composition and lipid peroxidation in cancer cell lines. Grossly misquoting papers that are supposed to support your central argument is a characteristic of science abusers. A nice way to put it is that Peskin has a vivid imagination.
All links WFS
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Old 09-13-2010, 07:03 PM   #26
Chris Mason
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Re: The Bad Side of Fish Oil

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Originally Posted by Larry Hotchkiss View Post
Is he? Ive read plenty of studies but one thing thats rarely very clear is the exact makup and process in which the fish oil used in the study was collected.

All the fish oil we get has oil with a portion of it epa/dha. Currently the focus seems to be on the epa/dha portion and less on the processing or how much of the parent essential portion is in the product. It could very well be that the oils used in efficacy studies where in line (maybe intentionally, maybe not) with what Peskin is recommending.
I'll let you in on a little secret Larry. There are basically two end game suppliers of fish oil in North America.
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Old 09-13-2010, 07:17 PM   #27
Larry Hotchkiss
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Re: The Bad Side of Fish Oil

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Originally Posted by Chris Mason View Post
I'll let you in on a little secret Larry. There are basically two end game suppliers of fish oil in North America.
What he promotes is not from fish.
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Old 09-14-2010, 09:35 AM   #28
Spencer James
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Re: The Bad Side of Fish Oil

If you really want to err on the safe (and expensive) side, calculate how much actual fish (wild-caught, of course...or grass fed meat) you would need to eat each day to match your fish oil supplementation. Then, drop the fish oil for a few weeks and eat this amount of fish instead. It'd be interesting to hear if anyone did this and noticed benefits (and yes, I'm aware that it isn't a perfect head-to-head comparison, especially if the fish replaced lower-quality foods in the fish oil supplemented diet).

Actually, I'm running low on fish oil right now. Maybe I'll give it a go these next few weeks. (edit: and I should point out that I'm pretty dubious of this anti-fish oil argument, but I do suspect sometimes that there is a dangerous amount of variability in the quality of fish oil that can't necessarily just be quantified by EPA/DHA).

Last edited by Spencer James : 09-14-2010 at 09:42 AM.
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Old 09-14-2010, 12:33 PM   #29
Simon Edmundson
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Re: The Bad Side of Fish Oil

I don't think it's really an anti fish oil argument. It's just a discussion about achieving a better omega 3 and omega 6 balance by not stuffing yourself every day with fish oil. Large amounts without the natural balance cannot be health. Doesn't most people on here try to balance meals? Y have lots of fish oil all the time without taking health/usable parent oils for omega 6
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Old 09-14-2010, 02:36 PM   #30
Wayne Riddle
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Re: The Bad Side of Fish Oil

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Originally Posted by Simon Edmundson View Post
I don't think it's really an anti fish oil argument. It's just a discussion about achieving a better omega 3 and omega 6 balance by not stuffing yourself every day with fish oil.
Well the fish oil is being taken because the typical American diet is so far out of whack that the omega 3's from fish help bring it back into balance.

If you don't want to take fish oil then don't. My opinion is I wouldn't base that decision on flaky science being pushed by Peskin.
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